Factnet interview with Jesse Prince (August 27, 1998)

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L: Do you know any other executives who left Scientology who would have knowledge of Scientology’s criminal activities?

J: No.

L: Mark Yeager?


J: Has left?

L: I didn’t know if he was still in or not.

J: That’s the point.

L: Does anyone know if he’s still in?

J: Not me.

L: What about Terry Gamboa?

J: Terry Gamboa would know, Janis Grady would know.

L: They would have known?

J: Janis not so much, but Terry Gamboa would.

L: The type of criminal activity she would be most familiar with?

J: Finance, corporate shenanigans, corporate integrity.

L: Anyone else that you know or has heard of that has left that… Or let me ask this another way, when you were in, what factors were they most worried about?

J: Gerry Armstrong, Lawrence Wollersheim, that girl up in Portland, the Portland case…

L: Julie Titchbourne?

J: Julie Titchbourne?

L: Any other staff?

J: David Mayo.

L: David Mayo.

J: Bent Corydon.

L: Bent Corydon. OK. You have mentioned before that David Miscavige, Norman Starkey, Lyman Spurlock and Marty Rathburn are the four that are most knowledgeable and most involved in Scientology’s past and current criminal activities. Beside those four, you also mentioned a…

J: Ben Shaw.


L: Ben Shaw. What other executives are…

J: Jeff Schriver, as far as the black ops thing. Gary Klinger.

L: Gary Klinger. The people that deal with the most secret stuff in Scientology.

J: Marine Bergatti.

L: Marine Bergatti, she’s out of England?

J: Right.

L: She makes regular trips in and out of the United States, has a passport?

J: Wendell Reynolds would know finance. He could tell you, because he did the whole thing.

L: He would have knowledge related to the IRS.

J: Another secret little person in the back that’s right up there, that’s maybe a notch and a half below David Miscavige is Mark Ingber.

L: He would have knowledge about criminal activity?

J: Financial criminal activities.

L: Any of the other top executives that you know that would be the ones most knowledgeable or most involved in criminal activity going on inside of Scientology?

J: No, I think that covers it all.

L: Besides Marty Rathburn being the weakest link and most likely to possibly turn states’ evidence or leave, rather than go to jail himself when they start prosecuting these crimes, is there anyone else in that group of people that you think would be the second most likely person that would say, “I’m not going to jail for all this.”

J: Lyman Spurlock.

L: Lyman Spurlock, why do you say that?

J: Because he is loaded with crimes, he’s loaded with doing the corporate, I mean, as a matter of fact, Dave Miscavige and Norman could easily point their finger to him and say, “He did it.” It’s not real to people how these people operate under orders, but, because by his hand a lot of things happened.


L: Do you think they would set it up that way that if something happened, you know, the old Mary Sue was not following policy, this is the renegade in the organization. Do you believe that if David Miscavige or Starkey could avoid the criminal charges and frame one of these other people, would they be loyal or would the frame them?

J: They would frame them in a heartbeat. Like I said, Scientology has a theory, a bent theory. We’ve seen L. Ron Hubbard’s wife go to jail based on orders he was having her execute. So, there is no dignity.