IN THE CIRCUIT COURT FOR PINELLAS COUNTY, FLORIDA
DELL LIEBREICH, as Personal Representative of the ESTATE OF LISA McPHERSON,
Plaintiff,vs.
CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY FLAG SERVICE ORGANIZATION, JANIS JOHNSON, ALAIN KARTUZINSKI and DAVID HOUGHTON, D.D.S.,
Defendants._______________________________________/
CASE NO. 00-5682-CI-11
PROCEEDINGS: Defendants’ Omnibus Motion for Terminating Sanctions and Other Relief.
CONTENTS: Testimony of Jesse Prince.1
VOLUME 1
DATE: June 18, 2002, afternoon session.
PLACE: Courtroom B, Judicial Building
St. Petersburg, Florida.BEFORE: Honorable Susan F. Schaeffer, Circuit Judge.
REPORTED BY: Donna M. Kanabay, RMR, CRR,
Deputy Official Court Reporter, Sixth Judicial Circuit of Florida.2
APPEARANCES:
MR. KENNAN G. DANDAR
DANDAR & DANDAR
35340 West Kennedy Blvd., Suite 201
Tampa, FL 33602
Attorneys for Plaintiff.MR. LUKE CHARLES LIROT
LUKE CHARLES LIROT, PA
112 N East Street, Street, Suite B
Tampa, FL 33602-4108
Attorney for PlaintiffMR. KENDRICK MOXON
MOXON & KOBRIN
1100 Cleveland Street, Suite 900
Clearwater, FL 33755
Attorney for Church of Scientology Flag Service Organization.MR. LEE FUGATE and MR. MORRIS WEINBERG, JR.
ZUCKERMAN, SPAEDER
101 E. Kennedy Blvd, Suite 1200
Tampa, FL 33602-5147
Attorneys for Church of Scientology Flag Service Organization.MR. ERIC M. LIEBERMAN
RABINOWITZ, BOUDIN, STANDARD
40 Broadway at Astor Place
New York, NY 10003-9518
Attorney for Church of Scientology Flag Service Organization.MR. THOMAS H. MCGOWAN
MCGOWAN & SUAREZ, LLP
150 2nd Avenue North, Suite 870
St. Petersburg, FL 33701-3381
Attorney for LMT.3
INDEX TO PROCEEDINGS AND EXHIBITS
PAGE LINE
JESSE PRINCE 5 13
DIRECT Mr. Dandar 6 5
[…]
MR. DANDAR: All right. Plaintiff calls Mr. Prince.
JESSE PRINCE, the witness herein, being first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
MR. WEINBERG: For the record, your Honor, I want to preserve the same objection that we’ve made to Mr. Franks — is that his name — Mr. Franks and Mr. Young, which is, among other things, the 404, 406, the First Amendment, and overall, at least as it relates to the — paragraph 34 of the complaint, to competence, in light of the fact that he left the church years before and doesn’t have any personal knowledge of what if anything occurred in 1995.
THE COURT: All right.
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MR. WEINBERG: Same objection. I presume that it’s preserved? And I will limit my objections to things like hearsay and other —
THE COURT: It is preserved.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. DANDAR:
Q Please state your name, and spell your last name.
THE COURT: What witness is that? Do you all have the numbers by any chance? How many witnesses have you called, do you remember?MR. DANDAR: Caught me off guard.
THE COURT: All right. I’m just trying to put a number with it.
Go ahead.
A Jesse Prince, J-e-s-s-e, P-r-i-n-c-e.
MR. DANDAR: Okay. I think we’re number six.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. DANDAR: I’ll double-check. Mr. Lirot will be checking.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q Mr. Prince, how long have you lived in Pinellas County?
A Oh, for a little over two and a half years.
Q Are you currently employed?
A No, I am not.
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Q When is the last time you were employed?
A Last September.
Q And who were you employed by?
A The Lisa McPherson Trust.
Q What is the extent of your formal education?
A Went to Catholic school pretty much all of my elementary years. I was born and raised a Catholic. Went to Chicago Vocational High School; went to Job Corps; went to community college, college prep in Chicago. I had a scholarship for University of Louisiana which I never took. And that’s pretty much it.
Q Why didn’t you take the scholarship to Louisiana?
A ‘Cause I was afraid to go there.
Q All right.
MR. WEINBERG: Your Honor, could we possibly — I don’t know if the microphone’s on or not, but I’m having a hard time hearing Mr. Prince.
THE COURT: Check and see if the microphone’s on.
MR. WEINBERG: If you could get — not that close, but a little bit closer than he was.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q Just try to talk into it.
A Okay.
Q So what did you do after finishing your formal
8
education?
A I had various jobs. I worked at the Norfolk and Western Railroad as a clerk. I’ve worked in binderies, a place in Chicago, Fidelity Bindery. And — well, wasn’t too much time after that before I became a Scientologist.Q What year did you join the Church of Scientology?
A It was 1976.
Q Where at?
A San Francisco.
Q And when did you become a Sea Org member?
A I became a Sea Org member that same year. I believe I transferred to Los Angeles from San Francisco, maybe in November, September or — maybe September; sometime between September or October, November, I went to the Sea Org.
Q Okay. And can you tell us — give us a capsule of your experience in the Church of Scientology after becoming a Sea Org member? What did you do?
A Well, I joined the Sea Org in ’76. And then at that time, when you joined the Sea Org, there was a program that was called the EPF that everyone who was becoming a Sea Org member did. EPF stood for estate’s project force. This was located in a little house in — in Los Angeles. I guess it was an old Charlie Chaplin estate. It was a place where you had to do training to become a Sea Org member.
9
The training for the most part culminated to making you a missionaire. A missionaire in the Sea Org is a person that has studied certain levels up to at least what’s called staff status 2, which basically means you’re familiar with the basics of the organization, how it operates, how it’s staffed, how it’s organized, the statistics of the area and the rules and regulations. It trains — the mission school training involved something that I guess I never even thought before. It was very military, where you — you wear a uniform and you — you’re trained on orders to go to a Scientology organization and improve the statistics by either changing personnel or increasing production one way or the other.
Q And how long did you maintain that status?
A During the entire time, from — from that point, which would have been in 1977, to the time that I left in 1992.
Q And what organization — when you became a Sea Org member and became staff, what organization was paying you?
A Organization called the Advanced Organization Los Angeles.
Q And did you ever change from that to another?
A Yes, I did. I never made it through the EPF before I was put on the RPF. I was on the RPF for — RPF being the rehabilitation project force. I was on the RPF for 18 months. And I got out of the RPF and went to an organization called the PAC Co-Auditor Organization, P-A-C, Pacific Area Command, Co-Auditor Organization. This was a Scientology organization that basically supervised and trained staff members to audit themselves on Scientology’s bridge.
Q How long did you stay there?
A I probably stayed there for probably a little under a year. And I transferred from Los Angeles to here in Clearwater, Florida in 1979, and I worked in — at the Ft. Harrison —
Q What did you do —
A — and various other buildings.
I came there — I came to Florida here to be a supervisor; to actually train and supervise the training of auditors, which are members that partake in the — the technical aspect of delivery of Scientology services.
Q You were an auditor?
A Yes, I was.
Q And when did you —
THE COURT: I’m sorry. You came to Clearwater when, sir?
THE WITNESS: 1979.
THE COURT: To train supervisors.
THE WITNESS: To — to become a supervisor. I
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came here actually as a supervisor, to train auditors.At the time, NED for OTs had recently come out. This was a big advance.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q NED, N-E-D?
A Yes.
Q What does that mean?
A New era dynamics for operating thetans.
Q This had just come out?
A Yes. This was new technology that had came out. And it was urgent at that time in Scientology to be able to train auditors in this new rundown. This rundown is delivered only by certain organizations, Flag being one of them. There’s others in other countries. And this was a very specialized type of auditing. So I was to train the bulk of the auditors on this process so that they could then go back to their organizations and deliver this new rundown.
Q How did you did learn how to do it — how did you learn about it before you were able to train other auditors?
A Well, there were other auditor levels that one had to train on before being able to train on this NED for OT levels. I guess there was a requirement that a person had to at least do Scientology academy levels, which are levels 0 to 4, specific auditing techniques. And once you were in — trained and interned on that, you became eligible to also learn to do this new NED for OTs business. You also had to be of the same case level in order to do that. So for a person to be trained as a NED for OTs auditor, they would have had to go through Scientology’s bridge all the way up to and through OT 3 expanded.
Q How far up the bridge had you gotten before you came to Clearwater?
A I had done — or I was mid what was called old OT 6.
Q Okay.
A And at the time, the levels only went to OT 7. So I was on the old OT 6. Now, those OT levels changed with he advent of NED for OTs to become something totally different. OT 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 are something totally different than what the services that were earlier offered under those same names.
Q How long did you stay in Clearwater, from 1979, to supervise and train auditors?
A I was here from the summer of ’79 till the fall of 1982.
Q And did your scope of the work that you were doing at the Ft. Harrison and other Scientology buildings here in Clearwater from ’79 to ’82 change?
A Yes, it did. It changed several times. I went
13
from supervising auditors, to train them to get up to the level of NED 4 OTs, to being —
THE COURT: I don’t know what you’re saying. NED fro-teez (phonetic.)
THE WITNESS: New era dynamic for operating thetans. This is —
MR. DANDAR: NED is N-E-D.
THE COURT: For OTs.
MR. DANDAR: F-o-r. Yes.
THE COURT: Okay. Go ahead.
A Anyway, I forgot what I was —
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q Was NED for OTs —
A Yes.
Q — written by Mr. Hubbard?
A At the time that I studied them, I thought that it was that. I — subsequently I guess it was determined in the courtroom that the materials were actually written by David Mayo.
Q Okay. But anyway, you were — who were you working for when you were sent to Clearwater from ’79 to ’82?
A Well, when I first arrived in 1979, I worked for an organization that wasn’t at the Ft. Harrison but at the Clearwater Bank Building. It was called the International
14
Training Org, ITO for short. At the time the commanding officer for the international training organization was Bill Franks.
Q Okay. So you worked under him?
A Under his command as the commanding officer. I had — there were other people between myself and —
Q Okay.
A — Mr. Franks for sure.
Q Did you run into — in Clearwater, did you train Alain Kartuzinski?
A Yes. Alain Kartuzinski was a student that had come from Paris to train on NED for OTs. I do believe the original idea for him was to go to one of the European organizations such as Advanced Organization for Europe or — 15 yeah. I think he was supposed to go to AOSH EU —
Q Okay.
A — it’s called, which is located in Copenhagen, Denmark. Or he would go to the one located in Saint Hill, East Grinstead, Sussex.
Q Try to keep closer to the microphone.
A I’m sorry.
Q And what else did you do in Clearwater from ’79 to ’82, in addition to training auditors on this new rundown?
A Well, I became what’s known as the intern supervisor, which is the supervisor that takes the students
15
that have finished their courses and then puts them through a period of time where they have to demonstrate their skills by auditing other people. And they continue to do this until they can do it perfectly and flawlessly. The intern supervisor is there to guide and direct and correct students on the materials that they may not have understood as deeply and as — as would later be required for them to apply. So I was the supervisor for a long time. And then there is another position — and all of these things are — kind of segue into one another — of what’s called a cramming officer. Now, a cramming officer will take a person who maybe is making errors in auditing and then correct them on their procedures or go over the exact bulletin or policy or whatever it may be that was not followed exactly, and to make the person understand and agree with that policy, and then apply it as written.
So I did that for a long time. And then I became the chief cramming officer at the Flag Service Organization. I did this correction type of activities for auditors from level 0 to level 12, which would be the highest level in what are called the Ls in Scientology. And I would do correction on all the auditors as well as the case supervisors.
Q Now, were you — did you have — in order to be a supervisor or cramming officer for auditors and supervisors,
16
if I’m saying this right, did you have more training than they had?
A Not necessarily. I certainly did not have more training than the majority of the case supervisors that I would do correction on. And I did not train on the Ls, which would be 10, 11 and 12, which are the highest levels of — of Scientology. But I was like a class 9 auditor.
Q At that time.
A Yes.
Q Did you ever get higher than that?
A Yes. I became a — I was interned as an auditor, certified as a class 9 auditor; certified as a corrections — a cramming officer, correction officer; certified as a case supervisor for a class 9 as well.
Q Okay. And how high on the bridge did you go?
A When I left, I had completed what’s known in Scientology as OT 7.
Q Okay. All right. So have we covered your years from ’79 to ’82 in Clearwater —
A Yes.
Q — as what you did?
A Yes.
Q Okay. What did you do after ’82?
A I was transferred — well, in 1982, in the fall of 1982, I was transferred to work at the Scientology
17
International headquarters. Of course I didn’t know it was that at the time. But I was transferred to work at Golden Era Productions, which is the movie production studio that Scientology has in the desert at Gilman Hot Springs, California. I was transferred to work in the RTC as a corrections specialist.
Q And how long did you do that?
A I probably did that from ’82 — for about a year and a half. I did that job for about a year and a half. Maybe to 1985 and — or maybe even ’84. Because after that, I was promoted to a higher position; became the deputy inspector general for the Religious Technology Center.
Q And who appointed you to that position?
A Vicki Aznaran appointed me to that position. It was approved by those that — you know, the seniors above that area, which was David Miscavige.
Q Did Mr. Hubbard ever have any input in any of the selections — selecting you for any position?
A In — in as much as when I left here in Florida, there was a — a mission out to find the best supervisor, best cramming officer in Scientology, and to bring that person to international management, and correct international management on its application of Scientology policies. A search was done in the organizations internationally, and at the end of that — the weeding-out
18
process, I guess my name came up as the person to fill that job. So he was informed that I had that job, and he welcomed me to that job when I arrived in California.
Q How did he — Mr. Hubbard welcome you to that job?
A He sent me a dispatch, a letter —
Q Okay.
A — welcoming me.
Q And what is the duties of the deputy inspector general of RTC?
A Well, this may take a while. But as the deputy inspector general — there’s only one position higher than that in the Scientology ecclesiastical org board, which would have been inspector general. RTC licensed other Scientology corporations to use the trademarks, a licensing agreement. And RTC was responsible, I believe — maybe still is responsible — for ensuring the purity of application and delivery of Scientology technology, auditing technology as well as administrative policies.
And so because we licensed different corporations such as the Church of Scientology International — if you had organizing chart you would have RTC, which would be here; then you would have the mother church, which is the Church of Scientology International, which is here. The
19
mother church in turn then license other organizations, such as the Flag Service Organization, AOSH EU, AOSH UK, and the Los Angeles organization missions. Whatever entities were using the trademarks and copyrighted works of L. Ron Hubbard, they were given a licensing agreement.
So in that regard, ultimately — there’s a very strict policy in Scientology called Keeping Scientology Working, where it’s imperative that everything is done exactly according to the policies and technical bulletins written. I was ultimately responsible to ensure that not only the Church of Scientology International was making good on its licensing agreements, but it was also enforcing it down through other organizations to make sure that they were adhering to their licensing agreement to apply Scientology technology 100 percent standard. You know, this is a — a term that they use. So I had that responsibility —
[Other court business transpires.]
[…]THE COURT: — okay?
Okay. Go ahead and continue.
A I hadn’t quite finished answering the last question.
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BY MR. DANDAR:Q Do you remember what it was?
A Yes. The last question was what were my responsibilities as deputy inspector general —
Q Yes?
A — at RTC.
And I mentioned we used to do the technology side of Scientology.
Then there was a separate area, areas that I also had responsibility for. And those were the legal intelligence and PR activities of OSA, which is a separate network in Scientology. And I had the responsibility of also registering, getting trademarks registered in the different countries of the world where Scientology was — had activity.
Q Okay. So what did you have to do with legal and intelligence departments of OSA?
A In the — in the beginning, not very much, because it was nothing that I really knew anything about. This was something that I learned as part of this — this job activity. So I would — I was privy to the activities of those areas as I learned the strategies for those areas.
Q Would you receive reports from OSA? A Yes. I would receive a report. Every executive — well, not every — I shouldn’t say every
2
executive, but the top executives in Scientology were kept abreast of the different operations in intelligence, legal and PR, by — at the end of the night — just before the end of the night, I would receive an envelope that said “Eyes only.” And inside the envelope there would be typewritten pages, maybe seven or eight typewritten pages, that gave a summary of the different operations that legal, PR and intelligence were involved in. And after reading that information, it was shred — something that had to be shredded instantly.Q It wasn’t stored somewhere?
A No.
Q When you say legal operations, what are you talking about?
A Legal cases.
THE COURT: Did you get this every day, you say?
THE WITNESS: Yes. Every day we get —
THE COURT: How — in those days — I don’t know. There was no e-mail. How did you get it?
THE WITNESS: Well, your Honor, this isn’t information that — in an envelope, typed on, obviously, a —
THE COURT: I mean, if you’re in Los Angeles, and Flag down here in Clearwater wants to send you
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something at the end of the day, how did they get it from Clearwater to you?
THE WITNESS: Well, your Honor, no one from Clearwater would have sent me anything, because there’s a chain of command. There are channels. In other words, executives in Scientology aren’t accessible to staff members of lower organizations or things like this. You have to go through a chain of command in order to have correspondence with an executive, or be asking for a specific privilege from that executive, after having gone through the channels.
THE COURT: Okay. But somebody — if — you got seven or eight pages from somebody —
THE WITNESS: Oh, yeah. This was brought — brought around from a person in the intelligence area, and they would simply come in, drop the envelope on the desk and leave.
THE COURT: Okay. Whoever it is that would bring that envelope to you, from wherever it is, how was it that they got the information, for example, from Flag on the day’s activities? This is really a very simple question. This is: Was it faxed? Was it gotten there by horseback? I mean, how did they get it from Flag in
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Clearwater up the line to whoever it is that dropped it off on your desk? Just physically.
THE WITNESS: Well, there could have been several ways that the information could have been passed along. It could have been passed along from telephonic communications; it could have been passed along via the computer. At that time, when — the time that I’m speaking about there was no, quote/unquote, real Internet, but Scientology had its own computer messaging systems where we could send messages to each other from Europe or from Florida to Los Angeles. So that was a way that information would come in as well.
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q And was OSA part of RTC?
A No. Not — not during the time that I was there, OSA was not part of the RTC. During my time period in OSA, OSA was in a very formative stage of being formed, being — departments figured out, purposes, duties, that kind of thing.
Q Was there any carryover from The Guardian’s office to OSA?
A Yes, there was. The staff — there were a
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carryover of some of the staff and some of the — and the policies.
Q Now, let’s just go back — you said one of the things you would get daily is a report on legal operations. Is that just in the United States?
A Yes. Well, predominantly. But I don’t think we had any cases abroad of any real significance outside of the United States during my time period.
Q And when you were a deputy inspector general, who was your senior?
A The inspector general, which is Vicki Aznaran.
Q And who was her senior?
A David Miscavige.
Q And who was his senior?
A L. Ron Hubbard. Pat Broeker.
Q And when Mr. Hubbard died, who was Mr. Miscavige’s senior?
A He had none.
Q And when you were deputy inspector general, you were a member of the Sea Org, correct?
A Correct.
Q Who was the head of the Sea Org?
A The captain of the Sea Org was David Miscavige.
Q Did he have any equal to his rank?
A I’m sure he probably did.
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Q He had other captains?
A Yes.
Q And would they have equal power as David Miscavige?
A No.
Q Why not?
A Well, again, I’ll refer to the organizational chart, the command charts, which is an exhibit in this case.
You have a — a kind of pyramid system of organizations as far as seniority, powers — broad powers and responsibility. And at the top of the chain is RTC, Religious Technology Center. Below that is CSI, Church of Scientology International, which is the mother church. And then from there you have like a — what’s called a FOLO, Flag Office Liaison Office, which is supposed to be a management center in the different sectors and countries where Scientology has activity.
An example of — of that would be here in Clearwater. You have the Ft. Harrison as one — the Ft. Harrison Building, or the Flag, which is one organization. And separate from Flag you have another organization called the FLB, the Flag Land Base organization, which, during my period of time, concerned itself with the buildings, the maintenance of the buildings, and then also did the missions, where they would pull Sea Org members to send to
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other areas, train them on specific orders to go out and accomplish different things in the organizations.
Q While you were in Scientology, could a Sea Org mission go in and take over a completely independent org like the Boston org?
A Well, that — that was the entire purpose of a mission, to go in an area —
Well, that’s not entirely true. There’s different types of mission. You could have a mission that would simply go in there and observe —
THE COURT: His question was, could the Sea Org go in and take over?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q And what gave it the power to do that?
A The Sea Org is the organization that is responsible ultimately for the success of Scientology. The persons that are in the Sea Org have dedicated themselves to Scientology for one billion years, and their dedication is to ensure that Scientology carries on and prevails in the society we live in.
Q And you signed a billion-year contract as well, correct?
A Yes.
Q Now, the intelligence operations —
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Well, let’s go back to legal operations. Would you receive a report daily of what was going on in each and every case that the Church of Scientology was involved in?
A Pretty much, yes. If there was activity, if there was courtroom activity that day, or a motion that was being put together or — or whatever, I’d receive the report about that.
Q So if there was a lawsuit that the Boston org —
I’m sorry. I’m picking on Boston — the Boston org was a party to and had a lawyer representing them in court, would you receive a daily report on the activity of that lawsuit?
A Yes. If there was daily activity on that lawsuit, I would certainly receive information about it.
MR. WEINBERG: Your Honor, could we just date from when it started to when it ended, that he was getting this kind of info?
THE COURT: I think he was saying during the whole time that he was deputy inspector general.
MR. WEINBERG: Okay. And I think he hadn’t said when that ended.
THE COURT: Okay. What was the period of time that you were deputy inspector general?
THE WITNESS: I would say from early 1985 until January, 19, 1987. ’84. I’d say ’84. Early ’84.
THE COURT: ’85 — early ’84 to January of ’87.
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THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q Now, when you were deputy inspector general of RTC, was Mr. Miscavige the chairman of the board?
A No. Mr. Miscavige was the chairman of the board of Author Services.
Q Okay. Do you know who the chairman of the board of RTC was at the time you were deputy inspector general?
A I later came to find out the chairman of the board of RTC — it changed a couple of times, to my knowledge, but I think the person who was — the last person who I knew was actually chairman of the board was David Miscavige.
Q Okay.
THE COURT: Well, I thought — let me stop you just for a minute here. I thought you indicated that the chain of command was the deputy inspector general, who was you, reported to the inspector general, who was Vicki Aznaran, who reported to David Miscavige. In what capacity?
THE WITNESS: David Miscavige was the chairman of the board of Author Services. Author Services was a literary —
THE COURT: Believe me, I know about Author Services.
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THE WITNESS: Okay. So —
THE COURT: So that — all I’m trying to find out is the capacity in which David Miscavige was, that Vicki Aznaran reported to, was as chairman of the board of ASI?
THE WITNESS: No. He was really captain of the Sea Org.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q How could Vicki Aznaran and RTC, a religious organization, have a senior who’s a chairman of the board of a for-profit organization?
A Well, that’s exactly the point. Being-senior part and — and giving orders and things from Miscavige to Aznaran wasn’t anything that the general Scientology public would know about. This was kind of kept secret, in the same way that Scientology staff members or Scientology public members don’t realize that Gilman Hot Springs is the location of international management of Scientology; in that same regard they would not know that Miscavige ultimately would be the seniors of a person such as myself, Vicki Aznaran and that kind of thing.
Or we couldn’t have that — it couldn’t be clear that — that that was the case because that presented problems with the tax — we’re trying to get tax exempt status — to have a for-profit corporation running a
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nonprofit corporation.
But Miscavige was the leader. Was and is the leader. I mean, at the even when L. Ron Hubbard was alive, he would do his communications through Miscavige, that would come to us.
Q Okay. And so was — was Miscavige, Vicki Aznaran senior — and I think you already answered — COB of ASI as captain of the Sea Org?
A As captain of the Sea Org.
Q Now, the intelligence reports that you would get daily, what kind of intelligence reports would you get?
A Ones that I remember specifically at this time had to do with different activities in the Wollersheim case, whether it be Wollersheim 3, 4 or whatever; you know, what was happening with the lawyers, what was overheard, what was planned, what kind of information was coming up during what’s called a ODC and CDC. ODC being overt data collection. They would collect information about the attorney, his — you know, his record. They would do an ODC. And then a CDC. And a CDC mainly entailed getting information that is not readily available or is public knowledge, such as personal phone records; a credit report, bank reports, an individual’s bank reports, this kind of thing.
Q How did OSA get an opposing counsel’s bank
82
reports?
A Hiring a private investigator.
Q And how did the private investigator get an attorney’s private bank records?
A This is something that they were hired to do. It was — it was very much shunned that we know specifically how that happened in case it ever went to court or the person was ever caught. So it was just, “Hey, we need this. We need a credit report on this person. We need his phone records. We need to know who he’s talking about, who he’s talking with,” and to do an analysis to find this person’s weakness. What is the Achilles’ Heel? What is going to get this person to stop giving grief to Scientology even if — in a professional capacity as an attorney. And then, you know, pursue those things that will intimidate, harass or discourage.
Q And why — what gave you, as a member of the Church of Scientology, the authority to do that, under the — under the rules and regulations or the policies of the Church of Scientology?
A I’ve seen many exhibits turned into this courtroom concerning policies on intelligence and attitude. And I guess the overriding factor is this: Scientology comes first. Scientology comes before the individual, comes before the individual’s family, comes before our current
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justice system or whatever laws. Scientology — I mean, it’s even a high crime to speak at — in Scientology’s laws, it’s a high crime to come before a court and give testimony without first Scientology being — knowing completely what your testimony would be, even if it had nothing to do with Scientology.
So they have different rules and a different standard to operate on. I mean, you know, is it legal? Is it right? Those are different matters. But that’s —
Q Well —
A — the —
Q — when you were in this position, reading these intelligence reports, do you know that if you got a credit report of anyone that had not given you written permission to get their credit report, that that was a federal crime?
A You know, at the time I did not. I personally did not. Because again, this is an area where I was kind of cutting my teeth on, so I was being walked through it and shown how things worked.
Q Who was walking you through it?
A Several people. It started out with David Miscavige kind of bringing me in the loop on this kind of thing and showing me. And the person who would normally be involved in these kind of operations would be Marty Rathbun, so I spent time with him, learning about these things.
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And — and Vicki Aznaran, who had previously had a lot of association in the Guardian’s office, which later became OSA. She was very familiar with the pattern and things that they do. And her husband, Rick Aznaran, who was my junior. He was a person that I used for the physical security of — to ensure the physical security of the Golden Era base of Gilman Hot Springs, which eventually spread to other organizations. But that’s another person who had experience.
Q Did you ever work with Mr. Moxon?
A No.
Q Were you gone before Mr. Moxon came on board?
A I met Mr. — no, I was not. I met Mr. Moxon when — again, I was there in OSA’s formative stages when I actually had the responsibility to put a person in command of it, fill personnel in the legal department, the PR department, the intelligence department, establish it as a organization which then would repeat itself in the other minor organizations within Scientology.
Q So you established the main OSA departments?
A Correct. The main OSA org board. We were there to work on what its organizing board should be, what personnel it should have, what policies it needs to operated on, who it needed to establish lines of communication with.
Q Was OSA still Department 20 like the Guardian’s
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office was?
A Yes.
Q Did it have the same org board as the Guardian’s office?
A You know, I couldn’t — in some respects they did, but I don’t think totally they did, because — and this is kind of how I learned it as we went along. The — the OSA wanted to make sure that they didn’t make the same mistakes as the past Guardian’s Office did. One of the main mistakes that the Guardian’s office made was putting in writing and detailing some of the operations that they did to some of the people that opposed them. An example that is, oh, Paulette Cooper, with, you know, having a person inside with her to affect her in certain ways, you know, and then the next thing you know —
MR. WEINBERG: Objection as to competence. Because he’s talking about something that he wasn’t part of, that supposedly happened in the early ’70s and it can only be based on hearsay.
THE COURT: Well, what does it have to do with this hearing?
MR. DANDAR: It has to do with our defense of extortion against Mr. Minton and the fair game of Mr. Minton causing him to come to this court and lie.
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THE COURT: Okay. And what — who is this woman?
MR. DANDAR: Paulette Cooper.
THE COURT: And how did you find out about Paulette Cooper, since Mr. Weinberg objected?
THE WITNESS: I was briefed about it, and I remember her specifically.
MR. WEINBERG: Well, hold on. That’s my objection. This is just pure unmitigated hearsay.
MR. DANDAR: Not when it comes from a corporate client.
MR. WEINBERG: Well, wait a minute. He was only in this position for — whatever he said — ’85 to early ’87. And if I understand this, he’s now going to recount some supposed incident that happened in the early ’70s before he was even part of —
THE COURT: Within — within the organization to which he was the higher echelon person.
MR. WEINBERG: Well, RTC didn’t even exist back in the early ’70s when this supposedly occurred.
MR. DANDAR: But Department 20 did.
MR. WEINBERG: Could I —
MR. DANDAR: I’m sorry.
THE COURT: You can, but your objection’s going
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to be overruled.
MR. WEINBERG: Okay. Well, I’m just making a record.
THE COURT: All right.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q How did you find out about Paulette Cooper?
A In 1977, when the FBI raided Scientology headquarters in Los Angeles, they broke into a department called B1, and they removed a lot of files.
Q Scientology department?
A A Scientology department. It was their intelligence branch.One of the problems on the files which led certain people to go to jail — I guess 11 people went to jail over this — was the fact that every operation, including the operation like the LSD in her toothpaste — put LSD in her toothpaste to make it seem like she’s insane, or to lift her fingerprints off a glass and put it on a bomb threat, which she was eventually being prosecuted over — I mean, these things were written in detail of exactly how to do it. And it said on the top who it went to, who approved the program, who executed the program. In other words, details which later came back to bite them severely.
So in putting this new OSA, this new branch there, that had similar functions, but were supposed to operate a
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little differently. These reports came. Again, it said, “Eyes only.” There was no routing as to who it was going to. There was no author. There were just paragraphs which were just summations of different operations that — that Scientology were enacted to discourage people who were in lawsuits against it or critical of it.
Q And then those — what you saw was then destroyed in some way?
A We were — we had to shred it immediately. Part of the new policy — and Vicki Aznaran is one of the people that told me this — everybody had to had a shred. There were only certain designated people these reports were going to. And we had to verify we shredded the reports. But the reports themselves only contained brief statements of the activities, not who were doing the activities or any details like that.
Q Would those activities include picketing, critics?
A No. These — these were different.
I — I’ll give you an example of an activity.There was an organization called CAN, called Awareness Network, that Scientology had apparently been fighting for years. I had no knowledge of it myself, but I would receive a report that there was a deep cover in CAN, listening in on the legal process CAN was involved in, lawsuits and spats with Scientology.
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This person would get privileged information —
MR. WEINBERG: Your Honor, I object —
A — report it to —
MR. WEINBERG: I —
THE COURT: Excuse me.
MR. WEINBERG: I believe that CAN didn’t exist in 1985 through 1987. What’s Mr. Prince talking about?
MR. DANDAR: Well, that’s good cross examination question.
MR. WEINBERG: Well — but then I object to whatever it is: Hearsay, competence. And he’s up here talking about some organization that, if I’m correct — and I think I am correct — didn’t even exist when he was there. How can he be talking about an intelligence operation with regard to it as if —
THE WITNESS: If you’ll let me finish —
THE COURT: Well, just a minute. NO, you don’t get to talk —
THE WITNESS: Oh.
THE COURT: — until I make a ruling. And we surely do not need help from you. At least, I don’t, in making my ruling.
Now, when did this occur, Mr. Prince?
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THE WITNESS: The specific example that I’m telling you —
THE COURT: Yes.
THE WITNESS: — are things that I’ve read with my own eyes concerning a group — it was either CAN or something like CAN — that Scientology wanted to get rid of.So a person was placed in there, deep cover —
THE COURT: You are so far ahead of me. Don’t incur my ire, because it’s the afternoon and it’s getting close to 4:00, and that’s bad for you and everybody else.
When did this operation take place, whatever it is you’re talking about? When did it occur?
THE WITNESS: It was either 1984, 1985, 1986.
It would have been somewhere —
I’m giving an example of something that I read within those three years.
THE COURT: Okay. And that’s when it occurred?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: And you were in the organization?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: And you read it as part of the documents of the organization.
THE WITNESS: No. As part of the envelope that
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would come by, like I explained earlier.
THE COURT: Oh, and you read it on — in what was reported to you.
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. WEINBERG: I understand. And I’ll cross examine him if it has to do with CAN.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q So they put an undercover person into this organization?
A Correct.
Q And what was this person doing?
A The person was there as a volunteer to assist the executives of the organization, you know, carry out whatever they were doing. And this organization was an organization similar in some ways to the Leo J. Ryan Foundation, in that anyone from anyplace could call, “I think my kid is in a cult. My daughter’s in a cult. Can you give me information about it?” It was an organization similar to that.
And this person was put in there to divine and be able to turn over to Scientology’s legal team information that would give them an advantage in court.
Q Okay. Now, besides the reporting of intelligence and legal operations, did you have anything to do with the hiring of law firms?
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A Yes. I hired — I can’t tell you how many different law firms abroad, simply for the purpose of filing trademarks. But in the United States, a law — well, an attorney that I hired by the name of Joseph Yanni for RTC —
THE COURT: I know this must be relevant, and I’m sure you can tell me, but what — what is who the law firms were or who was hired —
MR. DANDAR: No. I don’t care who the law firms were.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. DANDAR: I just want to know if that was part of his duties.
THE COURT: All right.
MR. WEINBERG: All right. And to the extent that he’s going to ask Mr. Prince about his discussions with these law firms, that would be privileged.
THE COURT: As to those — those —
MR. WEINBERG: In particular —
THE COURT: — matters — that’s right. During the time that he was in the organization.
MR. WEINBERG: And I assume Mr. Dandar has not talked to Mr. Prince about if Mr. Prince talked to lawyers for the Church of Scientology about —
THE COURT: I don’t want to hear it right now.
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I mean, this is a question-and-answer period. You have an objection, make it.
MR. WEINBERG: That was my objection.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q In addition to just hiring the law firms, would you also direct the litigation?
A Correct.
Q All right. And we’re not going to go into details about how you directed the litigation.
A Or even participated in the direction of it. You know, maybe not me, “Oh, this is my idea. Therefore we’re doing this,” but as a group. It was a group of people. It was, you know — and if there was ever a single decision to be made, it was certainly made by the highest person. But we operated as a group.
Q Who was in the group?
A It was Mr. David Miscavige, myself, Vicki Aznaran, Mark Yeager, Marty Rathbun, Lyman Spurlock, Mark —
THE COURT: It really — I don’t get it yet.
Why I do care how they hire a law firm?
MR. DANDAR: No. This is how they direct the litigation, Judge.
THE COURT: Oh, all right.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q And was the litigation —
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THE COURT: Well, I hope they do. They hire the law firm, they’re supposed to be in charge of the litigation, right?
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q Do you leave it up to the lawyers to decide how to run the litigation?
MR. WEINBERG: Excuse me, your Honor. Now we are getting into work product as to how it is that the church dealt with their lawyers back in the ’80s.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q Did the litigation involve RTC, that this group would meet and discuss, or did it involve any organization of Scientology?
A In one instance it did involve RTC. In other instances it involved CSE, such as the Wollersheim case. So you know, it would — depending on the case —
Q Okay. What I’m asking you is it didn’t — it didn’t concern crossing over corporate lines and involving litigation involving different corporations.
A The — the persons that I named that concerned themselves with litigation concerned themselves with all Scientology litigation, despite what corporation or whatever. These were the people that dealt with litigation
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for Scientology.
Q And there — was there a head of that group?
A Yes.
Q Who?
A David Miscavige.
THE COURT: Are you trying to tell me that David Miscavige is running this lawsuit? Is that what you’re trying to tell me?
MR. DANDAR: Running everything.
THE COURT: Well, I mean in particular are you trying to tell me he’s running this lawsuit?
MR. DANDAR: Yes.
THE COURT: Well, why would I care? I mean, why do I care who’s running the lawsuit?
MR. DANDAR: All right. All right.
THE COURT: I mean, this is — this is a motion to determine whether your case should be dismissed.
MR. DANDAR: It’s leading up to this question.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q You mentioned the Wollersheim case. Can you tell us what activities you personally know about in the Wollersheim case that have anything to do with the destruction of evidence?
A Yes, there is. And I — I’ve done an affidavit about that, and I’m sure it’s filed in this case.
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But there came a point in time where the judge —
as part of a discovery motion, it was ordered that Lawrence Wollersheim’s PC folders get turned over. I remember during one of these requests — and it looked like it was pretty serious that the judge was going to make them turn over these PC folders — that we had to organize — myself, Vicki Aznaran and other people had to go through the files and redact them by taking out incriminating information, what was considered to be incriminating information against Scientology or anything that could be misunderstood and could then become incriminating. We went through and we redacted files. And then when defense complained and — about the files being redacted and the judge ordered the files just simply turned over straight out, those files were destroyed. They were pulped.
Q What do you mean by pulped?
A They were taken to a paper factory. They were loaded into a — they were shredded, loaded into a solution and turned into a fiber.
THE COURT: Who ordered them destroyed?
THE WITNESS: At the time that I destroyed those documents, the order came to me from Vicki Aznaran, who received it from David Miscavige.
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BY MR. DANDAR:
Q Were there — was this a — destruction of evidence — was it pursuant to policy established in the Church of Scientology?
A Well, the old overriding policy in Scientology is to protect Scientology; to make it — you know, protect it in any way and to cultivate it and — of course, something that would harm it —
THE COURT: Where is that written? I mean, everything here in policy is in a document written down somewhere. Where is it?
THE WITNESS: There’s a policy letter called Keeping Scientology Working.
THE COURT: Okay. And that’s in evidence and I have that, so that’s — you’re suggesting that is part of the Keeping Scientology Working —
THE WITNESS: Yes, ma’am.
THE COURT: — policy.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q Any other policy besides that one?
A Of protecting Scientology, there’s Safeguarding Technology. I believe that’s a HCO policy letter and a bulletin. There’s policies concerning — Well, I — that’s what readily comes to mind. That’s what I mentioned.
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MR. DANDAR: Okay.
THE COURT: The relevance of this testimony is because you’re going to ask me to believe that Mr. Miscavige directed that the PC folders of Lisa McPherson be destroyed.
MR. DANDAR: Yes.
THE COURT: Okay. Or at least in part be pulped.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q Are you familiar with —
THE COURT: Pulped. Destroyed in some fashion.
MR. DANDAR: Yes.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. WEINBERG: Just so the record is clear, we turned over the PC folders.
THE COURT: Well, I understand. But he is testifying, and so did they in the Wollersheim case, that they turned over what they wanted to turn over after all the damaging stuff was taken out and pulped. I’m not saying that’s true; I’m saying that’s the testimony. Maybe it is true. I’m not saying it’s not either.
MR. WEINBERG: Well, in this particular case, Mr. Dandar has used the PC folders he believes affirmatively to indicate it supports his case. I
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mean, we turned over volumes of PC folders of Lisa McPherson.
THE COURT: I can guarantee you did. If this testimony has any relevance at all, the only relevance it could possibly have is that this witness as an expert is going to tell us that Lisa McPherson’s PC folders are not intact. Is that right?
MR. DANDAR: Yes. That was my next question.
THE COURT: All right.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q I had you review Lisa McPherson’s PC folders, correct?
A Correct.
Q And you did that with Stacy Brooks, right?
A Correct. In part, yes.
Q And did you — did you find her 1995 —
Well, actually, you looked at — you did a general review of ’95, ’94 and ’93, correct?
A I believe that’s correct. I mean, I don’t remember. But I certainly did an affidavit that laid out exactly what years I covered and what —
THE COURT: Why don’t you let the man have his affidavit while he’s testifying?
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BY MR. DANDAR: Q Let me show you the 12-page affidavit dated in this case — April 4th, 2000 —
A Okay.
MR. DANDAR: Next exhibit number.
THE COURT: I think this may be in evidence, but maybe not.
MR. WEINBERG: I don’t think so.
THE COURT: Oh, okay.
MR. DANDAR: 108.
MR. WEINBERG: Affidavit — it’s your new 108.
Is that what it is?
MR. DANDAR: Yeah. I — what did I do —
Oh, Judge, let me give you the clerk’s copy. Well, I better give you your copy and I’ll give the witness the clerk’s copy. Then I’ll be left without a copy. Here. Take this one.
THE WITNESS: Okay.
THE COURT: Oh, no. This isn’t — I’ve never seen this before.
MR. WEINBERG: If I’m not mistaken, this is under seal.
THE COURT: Well, really, there isn’t much under seal —
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Well, this is part of the PC folders.
MR. WEINBERG: I think because of the PC folders.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q First of all, Mr. Prince, you said you were a class 9 auditor in Scientology?
A Correct.
Q You audit people who are members of the Church of Scientology?
A Yes, I have.
Q Both staff and public?
A Correct.
Q Of course, you’re not going to tell us what you did in the auditing. I’m not asking that. But who are some of the more famous people you audited?
MR. WEINBERG: Objection to that. He shouldn’t — I object to him talking about auditing famous — quote, famous people. I mean, the St. Pete Times is here. Has nothing to do with the proceeding. If Mr. Prince has audited some famous person, what’s that got to do with this proceeding?
THE COURT: Well, you know, the truth of this matter is, I remember seeing something in this lawsuit that was filed that said he audited David Miscavige.
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MR. WEINBERG: I understand.
THE COURT: I think that would have some bearing, that Mr. Miscavige would trust — or Mr. Miscavige would trust this man to audit the head of the church.
MR. WEINBERG: I don’t think that’s where Mr. Dandar was going.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. WEINBERG: I think what Mr. Dandar was trying to do was get some famous person’s name, who has been audited, much like a priest gave somebody confession, and just put it out there so that we can read about it tomorrow. And I don’t think that’s appropriate and I don’t think it’s relevant.
THE COURT: Well, you know what I think? That at issue in this particular case is whether Mr. Prince is qualified as an expert, his credentials and everything about it. If he was — I don’t know who picks an auditor, whether he decides who he wants to audit or whether someone hired him — and there weren’t too many when he was there — made that choice. And if they chose him to do a famous person, I would think that showed they had confidence —
MR. WEINBERG: But isn’t that the person’s — I
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mean, talking about what Mr. Dandar talks about — privacy right, as to — as to who it was that — and when it was that he was talking to a minister of the Church of Scientology —
THE COURT: I didn’t hear anybody say when and I didn’t hear anybody say what they said. What I heard him ask was, who did he audit? I know of no privilege at all —
I mean, are these people not proud to be members of the Church of Scientology?
MR. WEINBERG: I think they are, but I think they would prefer that there not be testimony from Mr. Prince, who they don’t have a high regard for, you know, at this point, given —
THE COURT: Well —
MR. WEINBERG: — given what Mr. Prince has done over the last — whenever it is — four or five or six years —
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. WEINBERG: That’s my objection.
THE COURT: Your objection is overruled.
A The fact of the matter is — is as far as Scientology celebrities are concerned, I’ve never audited one. I’ve been a case supervisor for them. I’ve supervised their folders. I’ve reviewed and ordered corrections on
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their files. But I’ve never audited any Scientology celebrity.
THE COURT: See? Wasn’t that a big bunch of hooey over nothing?
MR. WEINBERG: I guess my question is, why did he ask the question?
THE COURT: I have no idea. But I had to listen a lot longer to him and your objection than I had to listen to him saying no one.
MR. WEINBERG: That’s true.
THE COURT: Is this Number 108, by the way? I can’t read your writing.
MR. WEINBERG: Yes.
THE COURT: 105? 108. Okay.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q Who are one of the celebrities you case supervised, Mr. Prince?
THE COURT: I must need a break because I can tell I’m getting cranky. So we’ll be in recess for 15 minutes. We’ll be in recess.
(A recess was taken at 3:30 p.m.)
(The proceedings reconvened at 3:46 p.m.)
THE COURT: Okay. Mr. Dandar, continue.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q So as a case supervisor, can you give us a couple
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names of the famous celebrities you case supervised?
A I’ve done case supervision, training exercises, training with John Travolta, Tom Cruise, Karen Black. I don’t know. I mean, there isn’t a one of them that I haven’t, because I specifically ran a project to ensure that the auditing of the celebrities were going well.
Q When was this?
A This was again during the same time period I mentioned before, from I guess 1983 through ’87.
Q Did you audited (sic) Mr. Miscavige?
A Yes. I was his personal auditor for a while.
Q How long?
A Maybe a year, year and a half. Maybe a couple of years.
Q What couple of years was that?
A Oh, I’d say, you know, through ’84, ’85, I audited him; ’86 I audited him. So it’s a longer period of time, actually. Maybe three years.
Q Okay. Did he have other auditors?
A Yes.
Q And he selected you and the other auditors or somehow he gets assigned or rotated or anything like that?
A I was selected to be his auditor by the senior case supervisor international, Ray Mithoff.
Q And were you in RTC at the time?
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A Yes.
THE COURT: Senior case supervisor, did you say?
THE WITNESS: Yes, ma’am. Yes, your Honor.
Senior case supervisor international.
THE COURT: Yeah. Okay.
THE WITNESS: He would be the highest case supervisor within Scientology.
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q And how was your relationship with Mr. Miscavige until you left in ’87 — I’m sorry — until you left — you changed your post of deputy inspector general?
A Well, shortly after that, there was a big power struggle. And I’ve also certainly written about that and spoke about that. But there was a power struggle in 1987 where I was forcibly removed. However I remained in the Sea Org for five years after that.
Q And of course, Mr. Miscavige was the captain of the Sea Org for those five years, correct?
A Sure.
MR. DANDAR: Judge, at this time I’d like to play a video clip. It’s nine minutes long.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. DANDAR: Of Mr. Prince inside Scientology.
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MR. WEINBERG: Do you have a transcript?
MR. DANDAR: There’s no transcript.
This is a copy from a copy from a copy, so it’s not the best quality.
THE COURT: Do the best you can.
MR. DANDAR: Should we dim some lights?
MR. WEINBERG: Can we date this?
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q Mr. Prince, do you know when this speech was given?
A Yes, I do.
Q When?
A It was December 31st, 1986.
Q Okay.
(The videotape, Jesse Prince at New Year’s, 1986, was played as follows:)
THE COURT: 1996?”– discuss expansion, legal victories and acknowledge top contributing members. “Thank you. Thank you very much.
“Next area we wanted to brief you on were the activities and wins from the Religious Technology Center in 1986. As I’m sure you’re all aware, the Religious Technology Center owns the trademarks of Dianetics and Scientology, and their job is really
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to see that Scientology is applied as LRH intended. Keeping Scientology Working. Along with that, they have started new activities, expansion activities at Scientology, opening up new fronts to Scientology, new countries to Scientology, and seeing that not only is the tech applied correctly, but in some instances seeing that it starts being applied for the first time.
“The speaker we have this evening has been in the Religious Technology Center for four years. In fact, he’s a deputy inspector general. Please welcome Commander Jesse Prince.
“Thank you.
“Thank you.
“Well, good evening. And it’s a pleasure to be with you tonight as we welcome in AD37.
“I want to brief you on some of the highlights of 1986 as we made some breakthroughs in the areas of terminating and handling squirreling and the expansion of Scientology and keeping Scientology working, which I think you’ll all find of interest.
“Squirrel groups are by themselves a rather simple thing to handle. As per HCO spec letter of 27 September, 1965, Internal dissension is what tears these splinter groups apart, formed by people
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who’s overt acts against Scientology prevent case gain. They rapidly rip one another to pieces. So even if one took no action at all because of their own ability to keep ethics in on themselves, these squirrels always disappear.
“But the real key to it is to handle any squirrels and squirreling so that they are terminatedly handled. To do that takes a no-nonsense and a nonapologetic attitude about who and what we are, and an unstoppable dedication to the preservation of the technology.
“This year, the Religious Technology Center undertook several courses of action designed to shut the door forever on squirreling of any kind, whether it is on the upper-level materials of Scientology, the lower levels, against the copyrights, or even the right to license and control of the trademarks of Dianetics and Scientology.
“First, as you may remember, in 1985 we won an order from a federal court in Los Angeles that prevented certain squirrels and psychs from using, copying or even having the noisy materials.
“Well, in 1986 we actually took this a step further. This year, the noisy materials were officially copyrighted, and we took this
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breakthrough to the federal court in this lawsuit. We got a green light — of course, against the squirrels’ protest — to add yet another account to the lawsuit for the squirrels’ violations of our copyrights. Now legally this means the squirrels cannot have any unauthorized originals or copies of our upper-level materials at all without being prosecuted under copyright law. And I assure you that any squirrels committing that crime, abusing our materials, will be prosecuted.
“You see, we take a very hard line with those few ill-intentioned small thetans that would attempt to pervert our tech, as for them, to see others become, or better more able, threatens their tiny little beingness. It’s just that simple.
“The reason we take a very hard line in enforcing our trademarks, copyrights and the purity of the tech and its application was very succinctly stated by LRH in Keeping Scientology Working. And I quote, ‘The whole agonized future of this planet, every man, woman and child on it, and your own destiny for the next trillions of years depend on what you do here and now with and in Scientology.’
“This is a deadly serious activity. And if we miss getting off the tread now, we may never again
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have another chance.
“The next area to handle was the area of the lower-level materials, which are also protected by copyright. In both the United Kingdom and Europe we found instances of squirrels who thought that they could get away with copying and using various — various of our lower-level materials. In both cases, these squirrels were sued, and in both cases, the squirrel immediately asked for a settlement on our terms completely.
“Now, the final settlement papers contain some strong language that can be used from this point forward to show that the courts around the world will not put up with attempts to steal, use LRH tech in an unauthorized manner. There is however another side to this battle that is actually very fortunate for us. And that is, in HCO PL, 21 November, 1972, issue 1, LRH states, ‘The basic characteristic of extreme madness is perpetual attack. Attacks on anything. Attacks on persons or things which contain no menace. Extreme, not petty crime, is at the root of such an impulse.’
“You see —
“I’ll say it again: ‘Extreme, not petty crime, is at the root of such an impulse.’
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“And we have a handling for that. Because this obviously works to our advantage. Many squirrels wound up inside a jail in 1986 and many others are being prosecuted. Their crimes range from robbery to drunken driving and resisting arrest to contempt of court to manufacturing drugs. As we move into the new year, it is important to understand why we will always walk away winners and why our enemies will ultimately end up the losers.
“In 1965, LRH explained this. He said, ‘The basic purpose of orgs is to implement Scientology. Scientology is prior to purposes. Explaining them and handling them, it is of course senior to all purposes and indeed the universe. It simply is life. And being life itself, it has a far greater power than any activity, depending upon purpose alone. That is why people are so happy with it and why groups founded on mere purposes are quite afraid of Scientology. For it is unconsciously realized that life itself, alone, can make and unmake purposes and rise superior to all formulas and actions.'”
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q Mr. Prince, in that video you said something about having settlements with people, and they — they — they beg
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or they want to settle. Do you recall that?
A Yes, I do.
Q What did you mean by that?
A Well, I can really only relate that to specific examples.
There was a — a person named Robert Scott who put on a Navy uniform — who put on a Navy uniform similar to the Navy uniforms that were used by Scientology at the time, walked into its top organization in AOSEU — AOSHEU. I hate to keep saying that. But he walked in there, and he demanded a copy of NED 4 OTs so he could use that to review folders, and he took this material and he walked out the door. One thing that I did in my department was to arrange for someone in Denmark, who seemingly wanted to pay a high price for these materials — arranged for him to negotiate a price with that person, and then to fly over to Denmark with a copy of the materials to exchange for money, when in fact what had been set up was, the instant he got off the airplane, to be arrested. And years later, I went back to his house and threatened him even more on that particular issue after he was — got out of jail — I think he was in there for a month — and basically just let him know that we intended on taking everything that he had, and his only salvation was to
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cooperate with us.
Q Did he cooperate with you?
A Eventually he did, yes.
Q And did you — in what manner did he cooperate with you?
A He — I think even in my own hand I may have gotten him to sign something, because I think he had a countersuit. And I’m just doing this from memory, of course. My former colleagues will be able to provide more information. But he had a counterclaim, I believe. I got him to agree to drop the counterclaim. I agreed with him to drop our lawsuit against him if he listed for us everyone that the materials went to, gave us all copies. And he had a castle called Kendegrade Castle in Scotland.
(A discussion was held off the record.)
A But we were in Scotland at the time, and he had this magnificent castle, and I told him he would certainly lose the castle as part of these negotiations, because there was some financial consideration as well in the settlement.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q And did he lose the castle?
A Yes.
Q Did the Church of Scientology take it?
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A I think the castle was sold and they may have gotten money from it.
Q Have you ever been involved in any operation where the Church of Scientology went after attorneys?
A Yes. I’ve been in a couple of instances of that.
My first memory of it happening, again, was in the Wollersheim case. This is during the period of time where I’m kind of being broken in. I’m kind of cutting my teeth on these areas. While I was talking with Marty — I was in a room with Marty and Dave and Vicki, and we were just kind of laughing and talking. And Marty mentioned that Charles O’Reilly — they had followed him to some club after a hearing or something. And I guess they were having drinks and a meal. And a private investigator by the name Gene Ingram apparently had hired a thug or somebody to physically beat up the attorney there, Charles O’Reilly.
Gary Bright, who was an attorney, I think, on — on one of the Wollersheim cases — we had a deep cover in the Advance Ability Center, which was located in Santa Barbara. He would come there to have meetings with his client. And our deep cover was also a trusted person by the client, so that person would have privileged information. That person was the senior SCS international’s brother, Bob Mithoff, who was a deep cover. There were actually three deep covers that we had in there, Bob being the most effective and the most trusted. And privileged information would be taken, financial information would be taken, legal strategies would be known and, you know, used against them.
Q You’re talking about Mr. Wollersheim, is that right?
A In this last instance, yes, that’s right, the Wollersheim.
Q Okay. Any other attorneys or any other cases that you personally have knowledge of while you were inside the Church of Scientology?
A You know, I don’t remember anything specific, but I do know that part of it would be to always create complaints that could be submitted to the bar against opposing counsel.
Q Do you have personal knowledge about that?
A You know, I’m going to say, as I sit here today, that I don’t remember specifically who the attorney was or —
Q All right.
A I can’t say that.
THE COURT: In your video you kept referring to the term — which is — happens to be new to this hearing — which is squirrel group and squirreling.
What is that?
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THE WITNESS: Your Honor, squirreling is a term created by L. Ron Hubbard to mean that anyone that is using Scientology in an unauthorized matter (sic) and is also not using it strictly as it is written.
THE COURT: It could be somebody within or without.
THE WITNESS: Correct.
THE COURT: So someone using the tech, is that it; someone using the tech improperly?
THE WITNESS: Yes, your Honor.
THE COURT: Okay. Thank you.
MR. DANDAR: All right. Rather than mark all this as separate exhibits, your Honor, I’d like to mark the next document as a composite so it would speed things up.
What number would that be? 109?
THE CLERK: Yes.
MR. DANDAR: Okay. Handing the witness the clerk’s copy, Plaintiff’s 109.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q Can you identify the first page of 109, Mr. Prince?
A Yes, I can. This is HCO executive letter written in 1966. Apparently parts of it were written by a person named Kathy and the other author is L. Ron Hubbard.
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Q And what is a noisy investigation?
AThis is an intelligence operation that is done to discourage; to harass and discourage. An example — they give a pretty clear example I think right here.
But another example of that could be to go around to a person’s neighbors, past business associates, ex-girlfriends, anyone that would have a bone to pick, and make allegations about the person, and ask them, “Well, did you know that he stole the blue ball on the 17th of whatever, and he — he’s doing this, and he’s really a bad person; and do you know anything he’s done?” And an investigator will systematically go through persons associated with the target to create this air of alarm and hysteria, basically.
Q When you were the deputy inspector general, receiving reports from OSA intelligence, do you know — did you see reports on noisy investigations of people opposed by Scientology?
A Yes.
Q And — now, this is an HCO executive letter, 1966. Was that still being practiced when you were deputy inspector general?
A Everything that is written by L. Ron Hubbard and is actually in a published form. Like this is a timeless
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piece to be followed for eternity. So it’s kind of like the Bible, you know? The Bible was written a couple of thousand years ago but people still stick to that.
In that regard and only in that regard is there a similarity in that these things are held sacred and forever.
Q Did you observe any noisy investigation of Bob Minton?
A Yes.
Q What — give us some examples.
A Well, the most vivid one that comes to mind is an operation that was done on his best friend, Jeff Schmidt, who he had apparently started a company with. Scientology found out about Jeff Schmidt through its investigation of Bob Minton.
MR. WEINBERG: Objection. Hearsay, your Honor.
THE COURT: How do you know about this?
THE WITNESS: Your Honor, I was there and I spoke with Jeff Schmidt and Robert Minton. We were in the financial district in London. And he made it very clear to me what Scientology had done. And he was in the process of packing up his office to move out of the country.
THE COURT: I’m going to allow it. It — it is hearsay. You’re right. It’s hearsay. But for the purpose of this hearing, I’m going to allow —
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there’s a lot of hearsay in this hearing.
MR. WEINBERG: I know. I just — you know, you —
THE COURT: Right. And it is hearsay, and it’ll be taken as hearsay.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q And Jeff Schmidt was Bob Minton’s business partner?
A Correct.
Q And what happened to him?
A He eventually disassociated himself from Bob Minton from fear of losing his business practice. He basically couldn’t stand a threat –What he told me specifically is that a Scientology investigator came to him and asked him to either provide or show them how to create information to get Bob Minton; in other words, to get him in legally, to get him involved in law enforcement, on the bad end of law enforcement. And Jeff Schmidt said that he was refusing to do it, and had had many negotiations with this private investigator. Finally his office was broken into and materials were taken out of the office, and at that point, that’s when Bob and I flew over there to discuss, “Well, okay. What was taken? What does this mean? What can be done?”
Q Do you know where that information ended up?
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A I do not.
Q Did Jeff Schmidt — was he Mr. Minton’s partner in the Nigerian deal?
A Yes, he was, along with a person, I think, named Miselan (phonetic).
Q And do you know if they made a little bit of money on that deal, or a lot?
MR. WEINBERG: Objection, your Honor. I mean, again, Mr. Prince is now being asked what Mr. Minton made on the Nigerian deal, based on a conversation, apparently, with Mr. Minton’s former partner. I mean —
THE COURT: And Mr. Minton.
MR. WEINBERG: And/or Mr. Minton.
He had the opportunity to ask Mr. Minton this stuff if he wanted to.
MR. DANDAR: And I believe Mr. Minton — well —
MR. WEINBERG: No, he didn’t. He said he didn’t think he did anything wrong in Nigeria.
THE COURT: I’m going to allow it. Overruled.
MR. WEINBERG: Okay. Just —
A Mr. Minton never disclosed to me the exact figure of how much money he made from doing the debt buyback for the government of Nigeria.
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BY MR. DANDAR:
Q And did Mr. Minton go to Howard University and explain to the Nigerian professors and students about what his Nigerian buyback program was all about?
A Yes. This was again a private investigator working on behalf of Scientology in Nigeria, started spreading this idea that something illegal had happened in the debt buyback; that somehow Bob had absconded with maybe a billion dollars or some other thing, or some other crooked regime. And they used a soccer star, John Fashanu. Feds — the — the investigator said this to Fashanu. Fashanu then used his connections. And he was paid to go around doing this noisy investigation stuff, by, number one, spreading false allegations, allegations that couldn’t be proven.
And this finally culminated — I met with a government official from Nigeria in Leipzig, Germany — I guess it was in 2001. I guess it was in 2001. And it was decided at that point that John Fashanu and his people would show up at Howard University in D.C. and we would debate this and Bob would explain to all concerned, Howard professional students and Howard professors who were familiar with the economic scene in Nigeria — I guess some people were upset about that because there is some
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criminality over there.
But we set it up to be in a hall in Washington, D.C. And strangely enough, John Fashanu never showed up. But I sat in a meeting with those Nigerian people at that university for many hours as Bob went through a stack of paper like this, showing them exactly how the deal was done, who was involved, how much debt buyback they did; what was their percentage of the company; how that was split. I mean, he took the time to go through this very painstakingly —
THE COURT: This must be — this must have been videotaped by Mr. Bunker, is that true?
THE WITNESS: Yes, ma’am.
THE COURT: Because it’s all on videotape and it’s all going to be turned over pursuant to the court order. If you want a copy of it, you can get it. You can get it.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q My question is, did the false allegations against Mr. Minton by Scientology on the Nigerian deal — how did Mr. Minton react to those allegations?
A He was very disturbed by it, greatly upset. He was upset over the fact that he had — was in the process of losing his best, best friend, who he had been in business with many years, Jeff Selman (sic), who was afraid of Scientology’s power and influence.
Q Wait a minute. Jeff Selman?
A Jeff —
Q Schmidt.
A — Schmidt.
I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m talking too fast. He was very upset about that. He was very upset about them contacting his other partner in South Africa whose name was Selman. And Bob Minton was disturbed over the fact that he knew that there was corruption itself in Nigeria, and if you paid enough money around, you could kind of get any kind of trouble started you wanted.
Q Are you aware of any kind of trouble that was started with Nigeria in reference to the Swiss government?
A I know that certain allegations were brought in Nigeria. And the private investigator working on Scientology’s behalf did go to Switzerland, talked to prosecutors, talked to law enforcement, and to use whatever sway or ability that they had to try to get charges brought against Bob in —
MR. WEINBERG: Can we just identify the source of your information?
THE WITNESS: Of which — which —
MR. WEINBERG: You just said that investigators and all this did this in Switzerland. And I just
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would — I ask, your Honor, for the source of it.
THE WITNESS: Oh, I’m sorry. Bob Minton.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q And did Bob Minton —
THE COURT: It’s all in Stacy Brooks’ time line.
MR. DANDAR: Yes.
MR. WEINBERG: I know.
THE COURT: I mean, it’s all in evidence already.
MR. DANDAR: But this man’s under oath.
THE COURT: Yeah. I know. And that’s why I’m allowing it. I mean, it’s all in evidence.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q And did Mr. Minton — how did he react to a private investigator making contact with the Swiss prosecutor?
A He was shocked. He — his — his — you know, I think Mr. Minton approached at least some of his dealings with Scientology in a bit of a naive way. He couldn’t conceptualize the fact that this could possibly happen to him. He couldn’t conceptualize that somehow he would be fighting for his credibility, his standing in the different countries and communities that he had done successful business with, to now have to go back and — and kind of
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resolve things all over again.
Q What period of time was it when you or Mr. Minton first realized that there was a private investigator contacting the Swiss prosecutors?
A You know, from my recollection, I remember maybe late 2000, 2001, early 2001, there was an incident where the prosecutors in Switzerland had been contacted. Bob hired an attorney or whoever to represent himself. The situation was sorted out. But then it came up again.
Q When?
A I think this is after the Howard University — either shortly before or right after, to the best of my recollection.
Q Is that 2001?
A Yes.
Q And was there anything else besides the Nigerian and the Swiss prosecutors — was there anything else that came to your attention concerning Bob Minton being — having a noisy investigation done of him by Scientology?
A Yes. There’s another instances of it. Bob had a interest or stock or something in a car dealership. I believe it was in Boston. And Scientology investigators went around and spoke to the principals at the car dealership. And at the end of that, they no longer wanted to do business with Mr. Minton. They didn’t feel
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like it was safe. It was putting the company in jeopardy to have investigators running around making these sorts of allegations. And so he lost that business venture.
Q That was a Lexus dealership, correct?
A Correct.
Q It wasn’t some old used car lot on the corner.
A No.
MR. WEINBERG: Just for the record, is all this based on conversations with Mr. Minton?
THE WITNESS: Yes. Yes, it is.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q And how did Mr. Minton feel about losing his partnership in a Lexus dealership in New England?
A He just broke down and cried. He was like, how is it possible to live in a country like America and not be able to stop this, to turn this off in some way?
Q What about any other noisy investigations?
A I guess they went to his mother’s house and basically told his mother that he’s crazy and needed to be incarcerated, and to somehow get the family together to try to get some kind of incarceration going, or at least get that idea going something was seriously wrong with Bob.
Q Did you know that Mr. Minton’s father had placed him, I think when he was 16, for a few days in a mental institution of some kind?
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A Yes. He — he told me about that.
Q So how did Mr. Minton react to Scientology going to his mother and trying to get her and the family to put Mr. Minton incarcerated in a mental institution?
A He was very upset about that. He was — his viewpoint was, you know, “If they don’t like me, then talk to me, but don’t go to my family.” You know, I guess his mother’s in a rest home. She’s actually quite old and would probably never understand these things if you explained it to her for 10 years. And he didn’t see the — it was just pure harassment, intimidation.
Q Did he just get mad about it or did he get excited about it or did he get depressed about it?
A Well, Bob would consult attorneys. He would — I mean, I’ve met almost as many attorneys with Bob as I did with Scientology. I mean, it was always having — Helen Dorr (phonetic), when he would go up there, “This is what they’ve done now. They’ve gone to my mother. They’ve done this. They’ve done that. Is there anything else I can do? Can law enforcement somehow become involved? Will someone open up an investigation to –” and of course, nothing.
So Bob’s answer to do something was to picket.He’s like, “Okay. They keep doing this stuff, they want to do this stuff, I’m going to picket. I’m going to picket. I’m going to make a sign.” Because that was his last line
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of defense. That was the last thing that he could legally do to say, “Hey, look, I don’t like what you’re doing and I’m showing it.”
Q Did Bob Minton — how long have you known Bob Minton?
A Since the summer of 1998.
Q Okay. Since the summer of 1998 until today, has Bob Minton ever picketed and told you or anyone in your hearing, “Let’s go picket so we can help Ken Dandar win the Lisa McPherson death case”?
A No. Bob — no. When he — a lot of — often –more often than not when he would get on these things that he wanted to picket, it was in response to something that was specifically — that he perceived was being done against him by Scientology.
Q How did Bob Minton react when his daughters were followed back to or from school in boston?
MR. WEINBERG: Objection to the form of the question. Mr. Dandar is testifying.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. DANDAR: Sustained. I agree with that, Judge.
THE COURT: Well, good. I’m glad you do.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q Did you ever hear about Bob Minton expressing any
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statement concerning his daughters being followed?
A Yes. He told me that his — his daughters and his wife had gone out, I think, to the theater or something or — or some school event or something, and they were followed. And when they came home, their neighborhood was papered with fliers that were distributed about him having some —
THE COURT: You know, I’m wondering why we are hearing this hearsay. A lot of this just confirms what Mr. Minton has already testified to.
MR. DANDAR: Oh, Mr. Minton said he would just get angry; he wasn’t afraid; he wasn’t concerned; he wasn’t depressed.
THE COURT: Okay. Well, then, how he responded — we don’t need to have Mr. Prince relate what Mr. Minton has already related.
MR. DANDAR: Okay. All right.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q How did Mr. Minton respond —
THE COURT: At least I don’t think. Now, obviously, you can bring in hearsay for impeachment if Mr. Minton told him something different from what he said in court.
MR. DANDAR: That’s what —
THE COURT: But I think much of what we’ve gone
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over here is stuff that Mr. Minton has said the same thing.
MR. DANDAR: My intention is to see if there’s something different, what he told Mr. Prince compared to what he told you.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. DANDAR: And I’m trying to — I’ll do it quicker, though.
THE COURT: Well, I hope you know — and if, you know, you don’t really have to let me hear it all. Just let me hear what’s different if there is anything different.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q Okay. Did Mr. Minton express to you that he was concerned when his one daughter was followed to a girlfriend’s house in Long Island?
MR. WEINBERG: It’s the same objection.
A Yes, he did.
MR. WEINBERG: He’s testifying again. You know, “When — such — such and such happened.” I mean, that’s just testifying.
MR. DANDAR: I’m trying to make it a little faster.
THE COURT: Yeah. I’m going to —
MR. WEINBERG: He can ask him what his reaction
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was to whatever it was that he told you.
MR. DANDAR: All right. Well, then, I’ll ask more questions so this will go longer. But okay.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q Did Mr. Minton tell you about his daughter being followed to Long Island?
A Yes, he did.
Q And how did Mr. Minton — did he tell you how — what he thought about that?
A He — he called me on the phone and he said, “Jesse, you won’t believe what they’re doing now. They’re going after my daughters.” “Oh. What happened?” “Well, she was followed,” or, “They papered the neighborhood,” or, you know, “They’re passing leaflets out. They’re talking to their friends,” his daughter’s associates, parents, or different people, you know, and just kind of doing their noisy investigation. And this was apparently quite upsetting to his wife, Therese, who would always — Bob said she would ask, “Well, what are you going to do about it? Well, this can’t happen. How do you make this stop?”
Q So —
A So he had a lot of pressure.
Q Okay. Did he ever — after all of these noisy investigations, did Bob Minton ever appear to you to be a tough guy about it or not a tough guy?
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A Well, in the beginning he seemed to be quite a tough guy. But as it — as it progressed — I mean, that — that time track that was submitted as an — as an exhibit, those were instances where we actually could find some type of documentation that proved what the time track said.
There are many instances where things happened where we couldn’t have or find the documentation. So for anyone to — to have that much done to them, I mean, even in my time I have never seen such a concerted effort to destroy an individual.
Q That time line, did you help put it together?
A I — I have — yes, I did.
Q Okay. And have you read the entire time line?
A I’m sure I have at some point.
Q And when you read the time line, was it accurate?
A Yes, it was.
Q Now, go back to Exhibit 109 —
MR. WEINBERG: Objection to that. Accurate based on conversations with somebody? He just said this time line, which we all know was —
THE COURT: Very, very thick.
MR. WEINBERG: — exaggerated —
THE COURT: Yeah. Most of that would have been through hearsay information.
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BY MR. DANDAR:
Q Was it — was it accurate through what Mr. Minton told you?
A Well — well, again, I will just state for the record that the information that was put in that time line was information that could be substantiated in other ways. So there is many things that couldn’t be substantiated. Therefore, it’s not there. But everything that was there, the intent was to be able to substantiate everything there with documentation.
Q So Mr. Minton told you there are more things that happened to him that are not in the time line?
A Sure. I mean, and I’ve witnessed it myself.
Q Like what?
A One time he invited me to New Hampshire — I think it was maybe the 4th of July. The 4th of July. We were up there; myself, Mr. Minton, his wife, Therese, his children. We were having a barbecue in the back. Scientologists came in their cars, started picketing and screaming from the road, “Where’s Stacy?” You know, this is one thing that they really liked to do; tell — make sure that Bob’s wife knew that he was having an affair with Stacy Brooks.
Q Well, she knew, didn’t she?
A Yes, she did.
Q So they’re yelling this in front of the children.
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A Correct.
Q What else would they yell besides, “Where’s Stacy?”
A That he was crazy.
There came a point in time where somehow they were able to get some of his psychiatric information from his psychiatrists and speak to him about that. And I mean at first Mr. Minton was just amazed that these could even happen; that it was even possible for an organization or an individual or any — for this to be able to happen to a citizen in America. But then again, as time went on, he wore down more and more and more, I guess. The threat became — I mean, he was just spending so much money defending himself in, you know, three or four countries at one time.
Q Now, let me — since you mentioned psychiatric records, let me jump — let me jump to August — well, June — August of 2001. Do you recall Mr. Minton being upset about records that were put on the Internet, with his wife, his children and himself?
A Yes.
Q What type of records?
A His counseling records from seeing a psychiatrist; I guess information about what kind of medication he had been taking and this kind of thing.
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Q And did you talk to him about that?
A Yes, I did.
Q And was he scheduled to appear in a deposition in Clearwater the next day?
A I think we’re talking about two separate incidents.
Q Okay. Which one are you talking about?
A Something that preceded the hearing that had to happen in Clearwater.
Q Okay. I’m talking about a deposition —
A Okay.
Q — all right?
Are you aware that he was ordered to appear, in the breach case in Clearwater, for deposition taken by Mr. Rosen?
A Yes.
Q All right. Are you aware that he did — he failed to appear?
A Yes.
Q All right. Did he tell you why he failed to appear?
A Yes, he did.
Q And what did he say?
A Mr. Minton didn’t have a lot of confidence in the justice system as it was being administered in Florida here.
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He felt that as far as discovery was concerned, that they were able to pretty much get away with murder. And he knew that Scientology was not going to stop until he was completely eliminated as an — as an individual. I mean, part of their policy is to, if possible, of course, ruin the person utterly.
THE COURT: Was he concerned —
MR. WEINBERG: Excuse me, your Honor?
THE COURT: — about that or was he concerned about the fact that the discovery was going to uncover the fact that he had illegal — or he had bank accounts outside of this country and money that was coming into this country that he wasn’t paying taxes on?
THE WITNESS: Your Honor, he may have had that as a consideration, but it wasn’t anything that I was personally aware of.
THE COURT: Well, what was it about the fact that the church was going to find this out or that the fact that the — that the courts were allowing the church to pursue discovery based on their allegations in the counterclaim that had Mr. Minton so upset?
THE WITNESS: Mr. Minton said that he felt that if he came to Florida, that he was going to go to
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jail. He had been being told that he was going to jail. He — he —
THE COURT: It was because he was the one that was thumbing his nose at the justice system in the state of Florida, wasn’t it?
THE WITNESS: Yes. Yes, ma’am.
THE COURT: It’s because he was the one coming down here and saying that — he was just acting like a jerk in his discovery depositions, flaunting himself at the justice system, taking the Fifth Amendment when he’d already published it on the Internet, and expecting, I suppose, that we were so stupid that we wouldn’t know enough that he’d waived it. And then, of course, when the judges said that he had indeed waived it and he could no longer hide behind the Fifth Amendment, that he started getting real worried, didn’t he?
THE WITNESS: Correct.
THE COURT: Yeah.
THE WITNESS: He became —
THE COURT: Because the church and therefore the courts were going to get pretty knowledgeable about what he had, moneywise —
THE WITNESS: Correct.
THE COURT: — overseas.
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THE WITNESS: Correct. And here in the United States.
He was concerned that if Scientology was allowed to have access to his different bank accounts, that he would end up fighting another war with Scientology as he did with the John Fashanu fiasco, and he was just tired of it.
THE COURT: Did he talk to you about — it wasn’t any — it wasn’t any secret, was it, that Mr. Minton was a multi-millionaire?
THE WITNESS: No.
THE COURT: Everybody knew that.
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: He doled out millions of dollars to fight Scientology.
THE WITNESS: Correct.
THE COURT: Came into court pretty proud, throwing out over $10 million. And everybody knew that, right?
THE WITNESS: Well, I didn’t know that it had been that much, your Honor, myself.
THE COURT: Okay. But I mean, he had doled out —
THE WITNESS: Millions.
THE COURT: — millions.
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THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: And everybody knew he had doled out millions.
THE WITNESS: Correct.
THE COURT: So the fact that this Church of Scientology was getting ready to find out that he had doled out millions —
THE WITNESS: Well, you know, there’s another aspect to this, your Honor. And the aspect is this: Bob Minton, in his mind, always tried to keep his family separate from his activities. He was ready to exhaust every personal resource that he had for himself to keep the fight going, but he was not willing to risk that for his wife and his children.
And so when the wife and children became a factor I guess something happened.
THE COURT: I don’t have any qualms about your talking about the fact that Mr. Minton was upset about his medical records being put on the Internet; I don’t have any qualms about your saying Mr. Minton was upset about his children being followed, about his business associates being contacted and what have you. I have no doubt that he was upset about that and what have you.
But as far as his being upset with the justice
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system in the state of Florida, the reason I’m upset about that is because Mr. Minton himself is what caused many of his own problems, right?
THE WITNESS: Yes, ma’am.
THE COURT: And then when it looked like they were going to find out some stuff that was really going to get him in a problem, then he had a problem with the justice system.
THE WITNESS: I assume that, yes.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q Did he ever —
THE COURT: But before he had problems with the justice system, he was plenty happy to play with it, jerk us around, come when he felt like it, answer what questions he felt like, right?
THE WITNESS: Correct.
THE COURT: Until people in the justice system here in the state of Florida said, “Bob Minton, you’re not going to play with our justice system here. We’re in charge,” right?
THE WITNESS: Correct.
THE COURT: That caused him a great deal of concern.
THE WITNESS: And I guess that he was mainly concerned because he knew that he would not answer
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specific questions. And he felt that if he came into court and he was asked those questions that he had made a conviction that he wasn’t going to answer, that he wasn’t going to answer them anyway, and he was just going to go to jail.
THE COURT: And he could rest assured on that; that if this court or any other court that I’m aware of in my circuit told him to answer a question and he said no, he would have gone to jail until he answered it. And there is no question about that. And I am sure that any inquiry that Mr. Minton asked, he was told that.
THE WITNESS: Correct.
THE COURT: Right.
THE WITNESS: Yes, ma’am.
THE COURT: No wonder he was upset with the justice system here, the way — and the games that he was playing.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q Did he talk to you about trying to figure out a way not to come to court when he was ordered to appear for deposition?
A I think I may have had that conversation with Stacy Brooks.
Q Okay. What did she tell you? ‘Cause she’s also a
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witness in this case.
A She told me that —
MR. WEINBERG: Just for the record, I’m objecting to hearsay, but — I understand what the judge’s rulings have been, but at this —
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. WEINBERG: All this testimony is hearsay.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q What did she tell you?
A She told me that Bob was extremely upset; that he was kind of in a — a state — a mental state like — I don’t know — having a breakdown of some sort, and she wanted him to go see a professional. I guess something had happened at that time where the — again, something happened with the children when he was supposed to come down. I think the neighborhood got leafletted again or something happened with the kids again. And the questions themselves, that he became very distraught. Stacy mentioned having him go see a professional, a psychologist or a psychiatrist or something, and he — he didn’t really want to do that. He didn’t want to do that. So — so that was Stacy’s angle of, like, “Okay, well, we need to get him to a professional and get him excused from coming to the deposition.”
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Q And did Diane Palermo’s name come up in that conversation?
A Yes, it did.
Q And was Diane Palermo, as far as you know, a mental health therapist?
A No, she is not.
Q What is she?
A As far as I knew, a social worker.
Q And was she ever Mr. Minton’s social worker?
A Not that I’m aware of. I kind of doubt it.
Q And are you aware, from speaking with Bob Minton or Stacy Brooks, what Stacy Brooks had tried to get Diane Palermo to do?
A Yes. Stacy Brooks tried to get Diane Palermo to do some kind of an analysis of Bob Minton’s mental state and — and give him advice that would preclude him from coming to the deposition.
Q And did Diane Palermo agree to do that?
A No. Not at all.
Q And so what did Stacy Brooks do next to try to get an excuse —
THE COURT: I know the answer to that and so does everybody in this courtroom. We don’t need to hear it again.
THE WITNESS: Okay.
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MR. DANDAR: All right.
THE COURT: This is in Stacy Brooks’ affidavit?
MR. DANDAR: Pardon me?
THE COURT: Is it in Stacy Brooks’ affidavit?
MR. DANDAR: I don’t think it’s in there. Not this way.
MR. WEINBERG: She testified about it and Mr. Minton testified about it. I think it’s all over the place.
MR. DANDAR: They’re calling her a mental health therapist who told him not to travel.
THE COURT: You already got that out. He said she’s not a mental health therapist.
MR. DANDAR: All right.
THE COURT: But Stacy Brooks filed something before Judge Baird.
MR. DANDAR: Yes, she did. That affidavit.
THE COURT: That affidavit is what I’m talking about. God, I know this case good, don’t I?
MR. DANDAR: Yes, you do.
MR. WEINBERG: Better than —
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q And did you see that Stacy Brooks affidavit about trying to make an excuse for Mr. Minton?
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A No, sir. I did not.
Q Okay. Do you know that Stacy Brooks called Steve Hassan?
A Steve Hassan? Yes.
Q And tried to get him to write an excuse letter?
A Yes.
Q Even though he’s never talked to Bob Minton about —
MR. WEINBERG: Excuse me, your Honor. Again, this is all based on conversations with Stacy Brooks. I mean, we’re —
THE COURT: But this is kind of impeachment, so this is what you got to do. In other words, if Stacy Brooks comes in to court and says one thing in front of me and this — she’s told something different to this man —
MR. WEINBERG: I don’t think she told anything different —
THE COURT: Yes, she did, about that.
MR. WEINBERG: About —
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. WEINBERG: All right.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q And did she ask Steve Hassan to write a letter?
A She asked Steve Hassan to become involved, and he
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declined, based on the fact that Bob was not a patient of his. Bob — they had no prior history or discussions about — you know, Bob hadn’t mentioned to him about anything. And of course I think it was kind of obvious that this was a last-ditch effort to — for Bob not to come down for the deposition.
Q But Bob Minton in truth was really, really emotionally upset about what he saw on the Internet.
A Yes. He was crying —
THE COURT: Bob Minton didn’t come down for the deposition, did he?
THE WITNESS: I don’t believe he did. No, he didn’t.
THE COURT: Then I guess —
THE WITNESS: No. He went to the hospital because he —
Okay. Now — okay. I’m remembering this.
THE COURT: Isn’t this what Judge Baird found him in contempt for?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: Why Lord have mercy, why a judge, why, imagine that; this justice system, when Mr. Minton flaunted a demand and a command and an order from a court to come here and he didn’t come, I guess he had every right to be upset at our system
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of justice because some judge took great offense and held him in contempt. Dear, dear.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q All right. Let me — let me go and look at Exhibit 109 —
A But you know, Bob ended up going to the hospital. He was — he started having chest pains or something, and he was in the hospital for a couple three days —
Q Okay.
A — under observation by a doctor. And I do believe that on the day that he was supposed to appear for contempt that he was in the hospital.
Q All right. Let me have you look back at 109 again.
A Okay.
Q You identified the first page. What about the second page entitled —
A — Intelligence Actions.
Q Yes.
A Yes.
Q Are you familiar with that?
A Yes, I am.
This is kind of a routine that happens in intelligence in Scientology on any — anything that’s a threat or — or an attack on Scientology. This policy kind
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of comes into play, where you investigate, you do your ODC, overt data collection; CDC, covert data collection. You do your noisy investigation. You find some skeleton. And if you can’t find it, you manufacture something. And you use that to sue for peace.
Q Is there something in here that talks about manufacturing a skeleton if you can’t find it?
A Not in this particular one. But you were — I think the one that you’re referring to, as far as manufacturing information against an individual, would lie in the department of government affairs for which you just have one page of.
Q Yeah. I see we’ve got two pages of the same thing.
A Yeah. But if I turn one — two pages back and I go to what’s listed here —
THE WITNESS: And I think it’s very hard to see, your Honor. It goes from page 484 in this statement packet — two pages away from government affairs —
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q Government affairs —
Wait. Let me just correct it now.
A No, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute.
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Q All right.
THE COURT: Isn’t this something; they’re just fussing with each other?
MR. DANDAR: You can see we rehearsed all this.
THE WITNESS: See, I’ll show you. Okay. I’ll find it for you.
THE COURT: You find it.
THE WITNESS: I’ll find it for you.
Here’s the department of government affairs.
THE COURT: Okay.
THE WITNESS: And this is page 483. And then this is put in there and this is put in there. But then we get back to page 484, where it says right here,
“If attacked on some vulnerable point by anyone or anything or any organization, always find or manufacture enough threat against them to cause them to sue for peace.”
THE COURT: Okay. This is page —
This is not in order, Mr. Dandar.
MR. DANDAR: I’m going to fix it. I’d like to fix it now.
THE COURT: Well, maybe you could fix it before you introduce it.
MR. DANDAR: I will.
THE COURT: If there is going to be Exhibit 409
151
(sic), you better have this 409-A, B —
MR. DANDAR: 109.
THE COURT: I’m sorry. 109.
MR. DANDAR: That’s what I’ll do. I’ll label them.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. DANDAR: I can see where the extra pages —
MR. WEINBERG: I’m lost.
THE COURT: It’s page 484, which is not after page 483. It’s about four pages back.
MR. WEINBERG: Okay.
THE COURT: It says, if you will look —
Well, where was that?
MR. DANDAR: Exhibit 4 is in there twice.
THE WITNESS: Let me see. It’s in the third paragraph.
THE COURT: Show me where you’re reading from.
MR. WEINBERG: I see it. It’s the third paragraph.
THE COURT: Okay.
“If attacked on some vulnerable point by anyone or anything or any organization, always find or manufacture enough threat against them to cause them to sue for peace.”
What is this?
THE WITNESS: This is a policy letter, your
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Honor. This is a church policy letter that is a policy letter for the department of government affairs, which is a department or a section or a unit within the Scientology organization, that basically talks about — you know, things having to do with tax matters, legal activities, whatever, for an organization.
THE COURT: What does the term “sue for peace” mean?
THE WITNESS: To my knowledge, it means basically that a person just wants to end what’s-ever happening and let’s just settle it and all walk away as happy as possible.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q Like a disengagement?
A Yes.
MR. DANDAR: Judge, I’ve marked mine, and I’d like to mark the clerk’s copy with the letters.
THE WITNESS: And you see we — I think — I can help you put this in order here, because you got the pages —
MR. WEINBERG: What I did was I eliminated the — the Intelligence Action, second page, it looked like the same thing that was —
THE COURT: Yeah. The second Intelligence
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Actions, right?
MR. WEINBERG: I threw that one out. They were the same as the first one. And then I reordered, what you did, 483, 484, 485. And I assume everything else is the same.
THE WITNESS: I’ve — so this is the whole document right there, these three pages.
BY MR. DANDAR:
Q Okay. Look at the next part, where it’s previously marked in another deposition, as Exhibit 6, about “make sure that’s all in order.”
A Okay.
Q First of all, do you identify that document?
A Yes. This is also a document that’s relevant to PR, legal intelligence.
Q And what is that called?
A Public Investigations Section.
Q Public investigation.
A Correct.
Q What’s that?
A This would be investigating individuals outside of Scientology using outside agencies. I have to take a moment to look at this.
Q All right.
THE COURT: I’ll tell you what. This looks
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like something too long to read here to have any meaningful talk. Let’s quit for the day. I’m tired.
MR. WEINBERG: I’m tired.
MR. DANDAR: Okay.
THE COURT: It’s quarter to 5. If you will read this over tonight, and we’ll continue on. In the meantime, have these marked by the clerk as 109-A, B, C, D, so we know what you’re referring to.
THE WITNESS: Okay. And I have — I have the clerk’s copies here.
THE COURT: Okay. If you’ll — do you have a copy for your witness to look at?
MR. DANDAR: Yes.
THE COURT: All right. Mr. Prince, while you are on the witness stand, you are in rather a unique position. You not only are under the rule, which means that you can’t talk to any other witness about your testimony —
THE WITNESS: Right.
THE COURT: — nor can they talk to you about theirs, but while you are on the witness stand, you are not permitted to speak to anyone about the case, including Mr. Dandar or counsel for the other side,
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all right?
THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: Now, I may, if I’m gone and Mr. Prince isn’t done and I’m gone for two weeks, let him out from under that, just like I did other people when it was going to be, like, long weekends or what have you. But not for tonight.
THE WITNESS: Yes, ma’am.
THE COURT: And I really think, Mr. Dandar, that you ought to be able to get through this a little faster. We don’t need — you can go quickly through those things that your experts have already testified to. And I presume his testimony would be the same.
MR. DANDAR: Yes.
I’m going to go through the PC folders and –which is I gave him that affidavit that you haven’t seen apparently before.
THE WITNESS: But this is the clerk’s. This has to go back to her.
MR. DANDAR: And I’ll show him that as well.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. DANDAR: Exhibit 108.
And then we’re going to talk about Mr. Minton, the LMT, and what transpired in 2002.
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THE COURT: You’re never going to finish tomorrow, I’ll bet you, but —
MR. WEINBERG: Plus he’s got Mr. Haney set in the morning.
MR. DANDAR: I have Mr. Haney in the morning.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. WEINBERG: So we’re obviously not going to.
MR. DANDAR: And he should be short.
MR. WEINBERG: But I will not necessarily be brief with Mr. Prince, but I don’t know yet.
THE COURT: Well, it doesn’t really matter. I don’t think he’s going to be brief either.
MR. WEINBERG: Right.
THE COURT: Because we’ve got a lot of ground to cover with Mr. Prince. And frankly, we’re not to any of the issues.
MR. WEINBERG: No.
THE COURT: But thank you, sir. You may step down, remembering the rule I just gave you about while you’re a witness on the stand.
THE WITNESS: Yes, your Honor.
THE COURT: If you will remind me Wednesday afternoon when we break for over two weeks, Mr. Dandar, better yet — I shouldn’t have to rely on this witness — if you will remind me, since he
157
is an expert of yours or a consulting witness or whatever he is, I may allow you to have some discussions with him since we’re going to be in recess on this hearing for two weeks.
MR. DANDAR: Thank you, Judge.
THE COURT: But you’re going to have to remind me so I can decide that.
MR. WEINBERG: We would like to speak to that particular issue.
THE COURT: Okay.
(An overnight recess was taken at 4:50 p.m.)
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REPORTER’S CERTIFICATE
STATE OF FLORIDA )
COUNTY OF PINELLAS )
I, Donna M. Kanabay, RMR, CRR, certify that I was authorized to and did stenographically report the proceedings herein, and that the transcript is a true and complete record of my stenographic notes.
I further certify that I am not a relative, employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties, nor am I a relative or employee of any of the parties’ attorney or counsel connected with the action, nor am I financially interested in the action.
WITNESS my hand and official seal this 19th day of June, 2002.
______________________________
DONNA M. KANABAY, RMR, CRR
Affidavit of Jesse Prince (May, 2002)
From mirele@sonic.net Thu May 02 22:23:37 20021
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Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Jesse Prince Affidavit April 2002
From: Deana Holmes <mirele@sonic.net>>
Organization: Scientology Killed Lisa McPherson
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Xref: sn-us alt.religion.scientology:1064781This affidavit was provided to me by Dandar & Dandar and has been filed as part of the court record. I don’t know if it was signed May 1st or May 2nd. I added what I believe are the approximate page numbers in brackets.
Deana M. Holmes
mirele@sonic.netIN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE SIXTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT
IN AND FOR PINELLAS COUNTY, STATE OF FLORIDA
GENERAL CIVIL DIVISIONESTATE OF LISA McPHERSON, by and through the Personal Representative, DELL LIEBREICH, Plaintiff
vs.
CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY FLAG SERVICE ORGANIZATION, INC.; JANIS JOHNSON; ALAIN KARTUZINSKI; and DAVID HOUGHTON, Defendants.
_________________________________/Case No. 00-5682-C1
Section 11
APRIL 2002AFFIDAVIT OF JESSE PRINCE
STATE OF FLORIDA
COUNTY OF HILLSBOROUGHBEFORE ME, the undersigned authority, personally appeared JESSE PRINCE, who after being duly sworn by me, deposes and says:
I, JESSE PRINCE, provide the following information which is based on my personal knowledge:
1. Affiant had been retained as the expert on the practices of Scientology by the ESTATE OF LISA MCPHERSON.
2. From 1982-1987, I served as a corporate officer, executive, and board member of Scientology’s Religious Technology Center (RTC). RTC owns the trademarks
[page 1]
of Scientology and licenses all Scientology organizations to use its trademarks. RTC licenses all Scientology organizations to use Scientology trademark material. RTC is also the senior corporate entity of all Scientology or Scientology related organizations internationally.
3. Affiant has been a friend and confidant of Bob Minton for many years, the trial expert on Scientology for Ken Dandar in the Lisa McPherson death case, and the Vice President of the Lisa McPherson Trust, an organization which was dedicated to exposing the deceptive and abusive of Scientology and helping those who have been victimized by Scientology.
4. Affiant was picketing at the Boston Org of Scientology years ago with Bob Minton. At this picket and in my presence, members of Scientology’s Office of Special Affairs confronted Bob Minton and relayed detailed information of Bob’s recent visit to his psychiatrist. This greatly concerned Bob because his psychiatrist’s information was strictly confidential. Bob Minton acts irrational when not on his medication. Bob’s psychiatrist then discharged Bob as his patient when Bob confronted the psychiatrist.
5. Sometime after this picket, I observed that Scientology posted on the Internet Bob Minton’s confidential psychological records.
6. Bob Minton also relayed to affiant that Scientology obtained his bank records and telephone records, which he said caused him great distress.
7. Due to the continuous harassment of Bob Minton by Scientology and its operatives, I personally observed Bob Minton and Stacy Brooks begin a compilation of a timeline of Scientology attacks and noisy investigations
of Bob Minton per Scientology practices.8. At the request of Bob Minton, affiant traveled to the office of Ken Dandar in February 2002 to relay to Ken Dandar that if Ken could get the Internet critics of Bob Minton to stop posting criticism of Bob and if Ken would quit meeting with Patricia Greenway, Bob would try to arrange to have his friends loan additional funds to Ken Dandar. Bob had told the affiant that he was still willing to help finance the case so that
[page 2]
it would go to trial.
9. On or around March 20, 2002, affiant called Mr. Minton at his home in NH to see how he was doing. Affiant learned from Mr. Minton that Scientology operatives had discovered information about him that threatened his wife and children’s future and Mr. Minton was very sad and upset about this. Mr. Minton said he no longer felt like living. He just felt like killing himself and things were really bad. Mr. Minton was crying as he told me these things. I asked him if there was anything I could do to help him and what specifically was the new threat. Mr. Minton told me he did not feel safe discussing the information over the phone and he was too upset to even talk about it. He told me that Stacy Brooks was leaving Atlanta, GA and flying to NH to help him with this new attack. I told him if there was nothing I could do to help him I would at least pray for him. After talking with Mr. Minton I immediately called Stacy Brooks to see if she would give me more information. Stacy said Bob was in really bad shape. Due to the harrassive discovery by Scientology of Mr. Minton, he was about to fall apart. Stacy said she had to get Bob out of harms way and end his participation in opposing Scientology. Stacy said that no one including the Florida courts or law enforcement had been willing to help stop Scientology’s relentless attack on Bob and she was putting an end to any and all liability for Bob. Stacy swore that she would protect Bob no matter what. She did in fact arrive in NH on the same day in question to help Bob. The next day after Stacy arrived in NH, I called to check and see how things were going. I talked to Bob and he told me he was going to contact Mike Rinder, who is the top executive of Scientology’s legal and intelligence activities to see if he could work out a deal. Mr. Minton said he felt like he had no other choice but to take this action of trying to negotiate with Mr. Rinder. Mr. Minton and Stacy Brooks have in the past successfully ended a lawsuit with Scientology, that ended with both parties
being pleased with the results. I asked Mr. Minton and Stacy Brooks to be careful and to keep me informed of any progress. The next time I talked to Bob and Stacy was on or around 23 March 2002. Bob told me that he had made the call to Mike Rinder, and the bottom line was Scientology was going to put him in jail. Bob said there was a problem with some checks he had given to[page 3]
Ken Dandar. After his talk with Mike Rinder, Bob said it boiled down to who was going to live, him or Ken Dandar, but someone was going to die. He said he called Ken and begged him to drop the wrongful death lawsuit at the demand of Michael Rinder, but Ken refused saying he had an obligation to his client Dell Liebreich. I told Bob that while I did not understand how his life would end unless he chose for Ken to die, I advised him to choose life, and I reminded him of his own family and how they needed him. Bob told me he was going to NY with Stacy Brooks to meet with Mike Rinder the following Friday. Thursday of the following week, Stacy and Bob flew to NY and called me when they arrived. Bob’s attorney Steve Jonas was also flying in for the meeting set for the next day. Bob and Stacy promised to call me after the meeting with Mr. Rinder. The next day at around noon time Stacy called me and she was very upset. She said that Mr. Rosen screamed at her and Bob that Bob was going to jail for contempt in front of judge Schaeffer and he was also going to jail for perjury in front of Judge Baird. Mr. Rosen also said that unless the wrongful death lawsuit and the Wollershiem lawsuit were dismissed Bob was going to jail. Bob told me how Mr. Rinder coldly told Bob Minton that he knew was f__king him, but at least he was doing it to him to his face. Bob went on to tell me Mr. Rinder went on to say that other people who were suppose to be his friends were F__king him behind his back: Ken Dandar, Patricia Greenway and Peter Alexander were mentioned specifically. Bob told me that Mr. Sandy Rosen or Mr. Rinder, I do not remember which one, told Bob that he is crazy if he thinks Ken Dandar will ever see any money even if he wins. The same person said to take the Wollersheim case as an example. Mr. Rosen told Bob that the only way he would not go to jail is if he got the wrongful death case dismissed along with the Wollersheim case. Both Stacy and Bob said they tried to explain the fact that they had no power or authority to get these cases dismissed. They told Mr. Rinder and Mr. Rosen that they had earlier tried to get Ken to get Dell Liebreich to drop the case but they flat out refused. The response was “too bad, because Bob was going to jail.” Stacy said that both Mr. Rinder and Mr. Rosen were being very nasty to them both and Bob and Stacy got up and walked out of the meeting because it was horrible. Bob and Stacy took the next plane
[page 4]home and were back in NH by 7:00PM the same day. Both Stacy and Bob called me when they got back to NH and expressed to me how deeply disappointed they were about not being able to reconcile anything with Scientology and they were putting the whole idea of negotiations with them on the back burner for now.
10. The next day, late in the afternoon I talked to Stacy on the phone and she told me that Mike Rinder called and said he really didn’t understand why Bob and Stacy walked out of the meeting. She went on to say that Mr. Rinder said that he understood that Bob and Stacy could not dismiss the wrongful death suit and the Wollersheim case in CA, but there were things Stacy and Bob could do. I asked what were the things they could do, and Stacy said she did not know but they were going to meet with Mr. Rinder and company again in Clearwater a day or so before the contempt hearing on Bob Minton in front of judge Schaeffer on 5 April, 02. Stacy was happy about being able to negotiate with Scientology and reaffirmed to me that she was getting Bob out of the Scientology mess before it killed him. Bob was very nervous about coming back to Clearwater and he expressed that he felt like he was going to jail if he came back to Clearwater.
11. Stacy Brooks, Bob Minton and Mark Bunker arrived in Clearwater FL, from NH on the 2nd or 3rd of April, 02. Bob and Stacy got a room at the Harbor Bay Hotel in Tampa, FL and Mark Bunker stayed at my house in Clearwater FL. The following day, Stacy and Bob went to meet with Mike Rinder, Sandy Rosen, and Monique Yingling at a restaurant in the Belleview Biltmore Hotel. After the meeting was over, Stacy called me and I asked her how the meeting went. She said she thought they made progress and things were going to be okay. I asked her specifically what were the “things that could be done” that would make Scientology stop trying to put Bob in jail. She told me she would tell me when she saw me but Ken Dandar was not going to be happy. Bob got on the phone and said Stacy was a lot more optimistic about what was happening and he was still worried about going to jail. Bob and Stacy had a very busy schedule meeting with Mr. Bruce Howie and Mr. Steve Jonas preparing for the contempt hearing with judge Schaeffer. Stacy and Bob asked that I not come to the hearing and she would brief me on what happened when
[page 5]
it was over.
12. After the hearing on 5 April, 02, Bob and Stacy called and they were satisfied with the results of the hearing. Both said that Bruce Howie was brilliant and Bob got off on the contempt due to a technical error made by Mr. Kendrick Moxon. They were very happy about this and invited me, and 3 other staff members that worked at the LMT out to dinner at Jackson’s restaurant located in the hotel they were staying at. Before dinner we met in the lounge/bar area at the hotel and talked about the hearing. Bob was still concerned and said Scientology had filed another suit where he was named as a defendant. He pulled the suit out and showed us what it was. It was a suit against Jerry Armstrong and Bob Minton. The suit alleged that Jerry Armstrong had broken his settlement agreement with Scientology multiple times and some how Bob had enabled and encouraged Jerry to do this. In the end, the suit asked for 80 million dollars in damages. Bob commented on the fact that Jerry had no money and he was sure Scientology would force him to defend himself in the suit and pay any judgments as a result. He gave me a copy of the suit to look at and I pointed out that according to what I was reading, Scientology alleged Bob co-conspired with Jerry Armstrong to violate his settlement with Scientology before Bob ever knew or met Jerry Armstrong. I told him the suit was crap. Bob’s retort was Scientology does a lot of crap and gets away with it and they would get away with this suit as well. Another person, Ingrid Wagner, read the suit and agreed with Bob that it was not crap and Bob should be concerned. We talked about the next hearing and deposition with judge Baird that was scheduled for 8 and 9 April, 02 and had a nice dinner. For the next few days, Bob and Stacy continued to have meetings with Mike Rinder and company and both started to reveal to me what Scientology wanted them to do. The bottom line was Scientology wanted Bob to say that Ken Dandar caused Bob Minton to perjure himself in the breach of contract case in front of Judge Baird. The plan was to get Ken removed from the wrongful death case and get disbarred as an attorney. I asked Bob what has Ken done to deserve that? Stacy cut in and asked me if I remembered a meeting that supposedly happened in the early fall of 1999. Stacy said she and I were at a meeting along with Bob
[page 6]
Minton, Michael Garko and Ken Dandar when Ken announced that he was adding David Miscavige as a party in the wrongful death case. As Bob was not involved in the case, Ken told him if he were ever asked, the meeting never occurred. She asked me if I remembered that and I said I did not. Bob said “Jesse, we need you to walk with us on this”, I said I would stand behind him but the meeting never happened and I was not going to lie about it. I told both Stacy and Bob that there was no way the case was going to be thrown out by trying to get rid of Ken. I told them that they were working with criminals who are accusing others of doing criminal acts. Bob said he felt horrible about what he was asked to do against Ken and he was not sure it was the right thing to do because it felt so wrong. At one point he read a letter that Ken had recently sent him which mentioned Ken having the blood of Bob’s wife and children on his hands if he did not get the wrongful death suit dismissed. I asked both Stacy and Bob what else Scientology wanted them to do to avoid going to jail. Bob replied there was a lot more Scientology wanted him to do but he did not know when Scientology would be done with him. Stacy and Bob had been working on a reply to Ken’s letter and Bob asked Stacy to read me the reply. I started to feel sick as she read the response but one point really caught my attention: the point was that Bob alleged in the letter that I had given false testimony because Ken Dandar had manipulated me to write that David Miscavige knew about Lisa’s condition and instead of letting her be taken to a hospital he let her die because of the public relations flap it would cause. I told both Bob and Stacy there was no manipulation of me by Ken and my testimony is true so don’t say that in the letter. Detailed evidence by Scientology’s own policies commands its adherents to immediately report to RTC ANYONE who has gone psychotic as a result of Scientology’s psychological practices. David Miscavige was and still is the Senior executive in RTC and has full knowledge of information sent to his organization. Stacy said the letter was just a draft and they were letting me see it to get my input. The letter was being drafted with Mr. Rosen and Mr. Rinders help. Bob laughed and said another thing he had offered Scientology as part of the settlement negotiations was to turn over my partnership in the film “The Profit” so Peter and Patricia would have to deal with Scientology on the
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film. I changed the subject and asked what about the Wollersheim case? Stacy informed me that she had talked to Dan Liepold, the attorney, and asked him to remove her testimony from the case. Dan refused to do it but Stacy said she would deal with that after they finished doing what Scientology wanted them to do in the wrongful death case. She explained that there were three witnesses for the plaintiff concerning alter ego. The witnesses are Stacy Brook, Vaughn Young and myself. I told her I had no intentions of asking for my testimony to be removed from the case for Scientology and we left it at that. The following Monday arrived and Bob was to be deposed by Sandy Rosen. After the deposition Stacy called me and briefed me on what happened in the deposition. She told me Bob was being deposed and she heard him tell a lie. Stacy said she had Mr. Howie stop the deposition so that she could clear up what Bob had just said. Stacy said she told Bob not to lie again and to go in and correct the record. She said when Bob went back into deposition he just broke down and started to cry uncontrollably. At that point the deposition was stopped and Mr. Rosen assured Bob that the record would be corrected later. The next day was the hearing for contempt in front of Judge Baird. Bob and Stacy had been meeting with Mr. Howie and Mr. Rosen to prepare Bob for his testimony. Bob and Stacy asked me to be at the hearing. They told me Bob was going to testify against Ken. I told them I couldn’t believe things had degraded to this level. Bob said he still did not feel good about what he was about to do and felt it was wrong. Stacy said they had to stay on this road and get through this. Bob told me that Sandy Rosen assured him that if he implicated Ken with his testimony that Scientology would withdraw the contempt motion and ask that all fines be dropped. Stacy and Bob asked that I attend the hearing, I told them I would be there. Monday came, and I sat in Judge Baird’s court room waiting for the proceedings to start. Bob got up on the stand and when he started saying Ken made him lie I got up and walked out of the court room. I felt like I’d been struck by lightning, and I started to cry. For the life of me I could not believe what I had just seen. Bob lying about Ken Dandar? Mr. Rosen now acting on Bob’s behalf? I knew I had to do something but I didn’t know what. I drove to the beach to think. I decided that I had to somehow get law enforcement involved
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or I could lose my friends forever. I left the beach and went to see attorney Denis DeVlaming. I told him I just saw Bob Minton up on the stand lying about Ken Dandar because that’s what Scientology wanted him to do. I poured my heart out to him told him everything that had happened and asked him if there was any way he could put me in contact with a federal agent that could investigate this and take the matter to a federal court. I told him I have to do something to help my friends. Denis said that I had been his client as well Bob Minton and there could be a conflict of interest, as Bob may need his help later. He told me his brother Doug DeVlaming knew someone in the FBI that might be interested in investigating possible blackmail and coercion. I explained the situation to Doug and he said he would contact someone, and for me to call him later. I left Mr. DeVlaming’s office and went out and rented a hotel room. I did not want to see Bob or Stacy and I knew they would be looking for me. I called my girlfriend and told her what happened and that I did not want to talk with Bob or Stacy until they were back at home. Bob and Stacy looked for me everywhere calling hospitals and checking with the police. My girlfriend gave them the message that I was very upset and I would contact them after they arrived back to NH. They calmed down and the next day Bob, Stacy and Mark left Clearwater, headed for NH.
13. The next day I was in telephone communication with Bob and Stacy. They wanted to know why I walked out of the hearing and what was wrong. I told them I could not believe what I had seen Bob do and it upset me greatly. I told them Scientology was making a fool out of them in my opinion. Stacy said the reason I felt that way was because I did not have all of the information. She said I had been left in the dark about some things that both her and Bob were not able to talk about because they had signed a non-disclosure agreement with Scientology concerning the settlement talk and it was time they brought me into the picture. She said it was time for me to start meeting with Scientology and their attorneys. I told her I was ready to start understanding what was going on. Stacy told me that she and Bob would be back in Clearwater on 12 April, 02 and we would meet and they would bring me into the picture fully. They arrived late that Friday, we talked on
[page 9]
the phone, and agreed to meet the following Saturday at 8:00PM for dinner at the Adams Mark hotel on Clearwater Beach. Stacy told me that she and Bob were meeting with Michael Garko Saturday afternoon. She mentioned that Michael was upset with Ken because Ken had not paid Michael since September of 01. I arrived at the hotel on time, Stacy met me in the lobby and we went to a room on the 9th floor where Bob was. We made small talk and Bob told me he had something to show me. He pulled out a stack of paper at least 2 inches thick and gave it to me. What he had given me was a RICO suit Scientology had put together that named him as a defendant. At the end of the suit it asked for 110 million in damages. Bob said, “So Jesse how much is that now? The recently filed Armstrong suit asked for 80 million, this new RICO suit wants 110 million in damages so that’s 190 million they want, plus they’re adding me as a defendant in the breach of contract cases. The only person that has money is me so it is me that will end up paying for all of this and I just can’t do it. I can’t fight them anymore”. He went on to say that he needed me to stand with him and Stacy on this to pull it off. I pretended like I agreed with him and asked when would I be able to meet with the Scientologist. Stacy said tomorrow but we have to go over some things first. Bob said what was needed from me was to change my testimony. As he was talking the phone rang. Someone was asking where a package should be delivered. Bob told the person where he was and he asked the person to leave the package a the front desk and he would pick it up later and he hung up the phone. I asked him what that was all about and he said Scientology had been talking with him and wanted him to change more testimony so as to implicate Ken further. He said the package was approximately 11 inches of testimony he had given before and some of it needed to be changed. I told him I don’t know what I’m suppose to change in my testimony because I told the truth when I gave it the first time. I asked how the meeting went with Michael Garko and Stacy said really good. She said Michael Garko said he knew the how much the case had cost to put on to date and there was no way Ken had spent 2 million dollars. Bob said Mr. Garko said he thought Ken had put the money in an account in the Cayman Islands. Stacy and Bob told me how upset Dr. Garko was over not being paid and
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he was going to help Bob and Stacy get Ken. I looked at both of them like they were insane. I reminded them of an incident that happened in August of 01 where Bob said the case was costing too much and Ken had to cut cost. Part of the cost cutting was to not pay Mr. Garko until the case was over. Bob invited me and Stacy Brooks to the top level of a parking structure directly across the street from the LMT to make sure there was no illegal surveillance going on and he said Ken is getting $500.000 and that was all he was going to get and it was a big secret and we were not to tell anyone about it. I asked them why they were both acting like they didn’t know Dr. Garko had not been paid. They didn’t have anything to say. We started talking about how they were going to get the Wollersheim case dismissed. Bob said that he had had a conversation with Dan Leipold about getting the case dismissed and Mr. Leipold stated that he could not do that because he had an obligation to this client. Bob was upset that Daniel Leipold would not agree to getting the case dismissed because he had loaned him money before. Bob then told me that he offered Lawrence Wollersheim, the Plaintiff in a California case against Church of Scientology, $200,000.00 of his own personal money to drop the case. I asked Bob and Stacy, how is it if you are in settlement negotiations with Scientology where you are trying to settle cases where you are neither Plaintiff or Defendant? I reminded them of a mandatory settlement conference that was scheduled to take place on the 19th of April. Stacy commented that she did not think that settlement conference would occur because Bruce Howie and Lee Fugate had met with Judge Schaeffer and briefed her on the information that came up on Ken in front of Judge Baird and that Ken would be disqualified. I asked if Ken Dandar was present when Judge Schaeffer was being briefed by Mr. Howie and Mr. Fugate and Stacy said no. I told her at that point that they were on very dangerous grounds and reminded Stacy of an incident whereby I was interrogated by the FBI for five to six hours because I had been in a meeting with David Miscavige, Lyman Spurlock and Marty Rathbun along with Earl Cooley where we discussed having a Scientology staff member take a motion to Judge Maryanne Fauscher to get a temporary injunction against David Mayo. I told her that I learned that it was against the rules for
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attorneys to make ex-parte contact with the Judge of record without having the attorney of record present. Both Bob and Stacy looked at me dumbfounded and Stacy commented that she did not think that what they had done was a problem. On that note we went down and had dinner and made small talk the rest of the evening. Bob did repeat that he needed me to walk with them on this, I said I would.
14. When I left Stacy and Bob that night I was shaking so badly I could hardly drive home and I had no idea what I was going to do to stop what was happening. I called a friend named Frank Oliver and asked him to have Ken Dandar call me as I had something to tell him. Ken called and I told him I knew that Bob was lying in court about Ken because this is what Scientology wanted him to do to stop the harassment and law suits. We agreed to meet at the International Mall in Tampa Florida for a meeting. He asked me if it was okay if Mr. Luke Lirot and Mr. Thom Haverty came, I told him yes. We all met in the mall and went to a lounge and I told only Ken everything that had been going on and I told him I could not live with what was going on. He thanked me for coming to him and told me how sad this whole thing was making him and how he could not believe it was happening. I hand wrote some of the details of what had been happening and signed it, see attached copy. I told Ken I was willing to testify about what was really going on. Ken said he was going to talk to law enforcement to try and save Bob and get him away from Scientology. I told Ken I was having a meeting with Bob and Stacy again and this time I was to be fully brought in and I would get a chance to talk to the Scientologist myself. I told him the only reason I was going to the meeting was to see the expression on Mike Rinder’s face when I tell them that I contacted law enforcement the day Bob lied and that other people knew what was really going on.
15. Later that Sunday evening I met with Stacy and Bob at the Radisson hotel on Bellaire Beach. They were staying in room 502. When I got up there Bob had a stack of papers in is hand and said he had something he had to show me. He read something that was totally incomprehensible to me and said that what this means is judge Schaeffer did not trust me as a witness and there was nothing I could do to help Ken with the wrongful
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death case. He said unless I change my testimony, Judge Schaeffer was going to put me in jail. Things got a bit heated between Bob and me because I told him I had no testimony that I needed to change. Stacy suggested that we all go downstairs for dinner and continue the conversation. When we got downstairs I mentioned that we had talked enough together and it was time I sat down and met with the Scientologist. Bob said no, I was not ready for that because I needed to walk with he and Stacy down this road first. At that point I realized I was not going to see a Scientologist that night so I had better try to say or do something to get my friends to stop lying for Scientology. I told them of two specific instances of when I had agreed to negotiate with Scientology but they never ever held up their end of the bargain and each time my life was ruined by them anyway. I told them I thought they were negotiating with the devil. I reminded them about the secretary of a Scientology private investigator named John Porter calling me and I put her in touch with Ray Emmons because she said she was in meetings with Mr. Porter and Scientology people where they planned months before in great detail how they were going to get me busted for marijuana. She even told me how they planned on planting seeds in my back yard. This information had been given to Bob when I found out about it. I was not the person who discussed what the secretary said, Mr. Ray Emmons did. Bob Minton was the one who told me about them putting the seeds on my back porch. I told them they were making a big mistake. Bob told me that I was the one making a mistake but if I walked down this road with them they would hire an attorney for me and everything would be okay. Both he and Stacy Brooks told me of a new life where we would all live in happiness and prosperity. I exploded at that point and told them the truth. I told them from the very beginning when Bob started to lie I called law enforcement and told them the whole story. I told them they were the ones who were screwed. Bob told me I was going to jail and I should leave, and I did. My two best friends have been backed into a corner due to the unlawful discovery practices of Scientology which was allowed to go on and on by the lower courts. The fact that there has been plenty of illegal discovery allowed into Mr. Minton, the LMT and Mr. Dandar on financial matters has been acknowledged by the
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appeals courts only recently. In effect, if the law had been correctly interpreted and applied these matters would have never been an issue. As a result, my friends are being blackmailed and coerced and are now lying for Scientology with the hope of getting Scientology out of their lives forever. I invite the court to look at the introduction to the “harassment time track” authored by Bob Minton and Stacy Brooks and reconcile what was written then against what they are doing now and have mercy on them both.
FURTHER AFFIANT SAYETH NOT.
_______________________________
JESSE PRINCEBEFORE ME, personally appeared JESSE PRINCE, to me well known to be the person described in and who executed the foregoing instrument and who acknowledged having executed same for the uses and purposes therein set forth.
WITNESS my hand and official seal at ________________ Florida, this ____ day of May, 2002.
___________________________________
NOTARY PUBLIC
My commission expires:______
J.P.[page 14]
Notes
- This document in PDF format. Document source: http://www.xenu-directory.net/mirrors/www.whyaretheydead.net/lisa_mcpherson/bob/affi_jesse_05_01.htm ↩
Affidavit of Jesse Prince (August 20, 1999)
IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE THIRTEENTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT
IN AND FOR HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, STATE OF FLORIDA
GENERAL CIVIL DIVISIONESTATE OF LISA McPHERSON, by and through the Personal Representative, DELL LIEBREICH
Plaintiff,vs.
CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY FLAG SERVICE ORGANIZATION, INC.; JANIS JOHNSON; ALAIN KARTUZINSKI; and DAVID HOUGHTON
Case No. 97-01235
Defendants.
_________________________________/STATE OF FLORIDA :
COUNTY OF HILLSBOROUGH :
AFFIDAVIT OF JESSE PRINCE1
BEFORE ME, personally appeared JESSE PRINCE, who, after being duly sworn, deposes and says:
1. I am over 18 years of age and currently reside in the state of Illinois, Cook County. This declaration is of my own personal knowledge and if called upon to testify to the facts herein I could and would be competently able to
testify thereto.My History in Scientology
2. I was in Scientology for 16 years (1976-92). In July of 1992, I escaped with my wife from Scientology headquarters at Gilman Hotsprings, Ca. Under duress, my wife and I were forced to return. After intense interrogation and isolation, my wife and I on October 31, 1992, were able to leave Scientology, but only after we were coerced to sign a release containing untrue statements protecting Scientology from legal liability. I remained silent about my experience in Scientology, since upon leaving I was subjected to routine monitoring by Mike Sutter of the Religious Technology Center, (RTC), and Earl Cooley, Scientology counsel. In July of 1998, I discovered that others had similar experiences and were courageous enough to speak out against Scientology. I therefore ended my silence so that others would know about the truth of what really happens within the inner circles of Scientology.
2. I am intimately familiar with the organization, movement, beliefs, practices and technologies of Scientology. I served in the highest ranks of Scientology, including second in command of the Religious Technology Center
(RTC), the most senior body of Scientology.3. Beginning in March of 1983 and until the Spring of 1987, I held the position of “Deputy Inspector General, External”. In this position, I was one of three members of the Board of Directors of RTC while David Miscavige was on its Board of Trustees.
4. In the position of “Deputy Inspector General, External”, I was in charge of supervising all activities in every aspect of Scientology, i.e., supervising senior management structure of the “mother church”, Church of Scientology International, CSI. In the hierarchy of all of Scientology, I was only two steps removed from L. Ron Hubbard. Mr. Hubbard gave his orders to David Miscavige who in turn gave them to me to supervise, delegate and enforce their execution. Corporately speaking, Vicki Aznaran, the President of RTC, and I were accountable and reported only to David Miscavige and L. Ron Hubbard. RTC gave CSI the license to use Dianetics and Scientology technologies.
5. Moreover, I was in charge of the Trademark Integrity Secretary, (TMI Sec), Jim Mooney, who had authority over the senior management of CSI called the Watchdog Committee. This Committee has complete authority over the different sectors of all of Scientology. The members of this committee are comprised of senior management officials who oversee and control the management of the following: FLAG SERVICE ORGANIZATION,(FSO); World Institute of Scientology Enterprises, (WISE); Scientology Missions International,(SMI); Reserves, the person responsible for the management and supervision of all bank accounts and revenues; Golden Era Productions, (GOLD);Flag Land Base,(FLB); Sea Org, (SO); Celebrity Center International, (CCInt); and Office of Special Affairs, (OSA), which handles all the legal and intelligence functions of Scientology.
7. Some of my specific duties as Deputy Inspector General, External, included supervising all litigation by or against any Scientology organization, intelligence and covert operations brought against perceived or imagined “enemies”, trademark registrations, and the licensing of trademarks to other Scientology corporations to create the false impression of “corporate integrity”. I was also in charge of the “Celeb Project,” which ran all auditing of Scientology celebrities, such as John Travolta, Priscilla Presley, Kirstie Alley, Anne Archer, and Chick Corea to name a few. I was also the auditor for David Miscavige and his wife, Shelly. I was the course instructor for all of the auditing courses for Alain Kartuzinski and his Cramming Officer for Class 10, 11, and 12, 12 being the highest level an auditor can reach.
6. I first became involved with Scientology in September, 1976, in San Francisco. In late 1976, I joined the elite Scientology paramilitary organization known as the Sea Organization, also known as the “Sea Org” or the acronym “SO”. Sea Organization personnel are authorized to take over and control Scientology organizations and to demote or promote personnel including chief executives, move bank accounts, and run the corporation as if SO personnel were employees or representatives of that corporation. The power of the SO is not only over the purported religious Scientology organizations but also prevails over the secular organizations such as WISE or Bridge Publications. The Sea Org’s pervasive authority is possible because the only personnel allowed into executive positions in these organizations are those who are in full agreement that the Sea Organization is the commanding organization.
7. Before I was recruited into the Religious Technology Center (RTC) in 1982, most of my experience was with Scientology technical material; the actual codified auditing and administrative techniques used within the organization. This gave me considerable time to become familiar with these technical materials, most of which was written by Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard. My knowlege and expertise of the technologies prompted my promotion to a technical position at RTC.
8. In the fall of 1982, L. Ron Hubbard issued an order to find the best Supervisor/Cramming Officer in all of Scientology and bring that person to Golden Era Productions (GOLD) to correct and train the senior executive management structure of the Scientology empire all around the world. A Supervisor in Scientology is analogous to a teacher in a class room. A Cramming Officer is responsible for the correction of individuals who have difficulty in executing the techniques of Dianetics and Scientology or otherwise following the dogma of L. Ron Hubbard to the letter. Mike Eldridge, a personal emissary of L. Ron Hubbard, in charge of conducting the search to
find the most qualified person to serve as Supervisor/Cramming Officer, recommended me to David Miscavige, who ultimately approved my appointment. I was transferred to, lived and worked at what is known as “Golden Era Studios,” near Hemet, California. It is also known as “Gold” or simply “The Base”, where senior management of Scientology is headquartered.9. By Scientology standards, I was a very highly trained auditor and case supervisor. An auditor in Scientology is a trained practitioner of the pseudo scientific methodology of psychological counseling commonly referred to as “The Tech,” as dictated and written by Scientology founder L Ron Hubbard. A case supervisor is also a trained auditor who reads the “auditing” records of every counseling session performed by an auditor to ensure “The Tech” was applied exactly. In Scientology there are 12 levels of auditor and case supervisor classification, each level being “higher” than the next. In this system, I was certified as a Class 9 Auditor and a certified Class 9 Case Supervisor.
10. In my capacity as Deputy Inspector General, External, I traveled about the U.S. and outside of the U.S. on behalf of RTC. I traveled to Germany, Italy, Australia, United Kingdom, Denmark, Mexico and Canada. These trips were designed to put together an infrastructure that would interface with RTC for the purpose of trademark enforcement. I was personally chosen by David Miscavige over Vicki Aznaran to speak on behalf of RTC to a worldwide audience via satellite to warn them that RTC holds the trademarks of Scientology and eradicates all those who violate “The Tech” or infringe on trademarks.
11. I became familiar with the trademark laws of the various countries in which I traveled. I interviewed and retained law firms, and put personnel in place that would report to RTC and be our site representatives. I testified as an expert witness on Scientology technology on behalf of RTC in federal court in Los Angeles in a RICO action with RTC as the plaintiff in 1985. In 1983, on orders from L. Ron Hubbard, I brought into existence within RTC a unit called “The Tech Unit”. The Tech Unit had the responsibility of inspecting PC files a/k/a Pre-Clear files, (counseling files), in all Scientology organizations to ensure “The Tech” was being applied 100% according to the standard tech.
12. When Hubbard died in 1986, there was a power struggle in Scientology for the next 18 or so months that resulted in Hubbard’s closest and most powerful aide (Pat Broeker) being removed from Scientology. Total power was taken over by David Miscavige who purged the organization of anyone who was friendly with Broeker. In mid 1987, because I did not want to participate in Miscavige’s power struggle to become the head of Scientology, I was forcefully removed from my position and put under armed guard at Happy Valley, located deep in the desert behind the Soboba Indian Reservation. It is my belief that my undated resignation, which I signed when appointed to the Board, was then dated and used to make it appear that I had resigned, when I had not.
Practices of Scientology
13. From time to time, based on orders that I received from David Miscavige, I would order others to engage in illegal activities against perceived enemies of Scientology. These activities included, but were not limited to, wire-tapping and document destruction. For example, on or about April,1983, I was present at a meeting which took place in Los Angeles, California, at a Scientology office called Author Services, Inc. (ASI), a for profit company
and the “literary agency” for Hubbard, run by David Miscavige. There is no real corporate structure among the many Scientology corporations. ASI was the meeting place where various Scientology corporations went to receive orders. Present at this meeting was David Miscavige, then the Chairman of the Board of ASI, Vicki Aznaran, Deputy Inspector General of RTC, Marc Yeager, Commanding officer of CSI, and Lyman Spurlock, who was “Director of Client Affairs” for ASI. Mr. Miscavige expressed concern at this meeting that there might possibly be a raid on Scientology by the IRS. At that time, none of the churches of Scientology had received tax exempt status. At this meeting, David Miscavige announced to the group that the destruction and alteration of documents to protect Scientology was in progress. One principal reason why tax exempt status had not been granted was the IRS’s position that Scientology founder, L. Ron Hubbard (LRH), was actually the managing agent of Scientology in complete disregard of the corporate structure of Scientology. We knew this to be a fact, but also knew that it violated IRS rules and thus had to be hidden. There was concern that the IRS would obtain the hundreds of daily, weekly and monthly LRH orders written by Hubbard and distributed throughout Scientology. These orders were commonly referred to in Scientology as “advices” to avoid the appearance that Hubbard was actually running Scientology. In fact, Hubbard was running Scientology. The principal concern expressed at this meeting was that the LRH orders or “advices” would be used to name Hubbard as the managing agent of Scientology. Because of an already existing fear that an LRH “advice” might fall into the wrong hands, these orders from him were written in a way that we could deny it was from him. His name was not on them. He was never cited in the dispatch except in the third person. There was no signature and a salutation in reply was never more than “Dear Sir.” The routing at the top referred to him merely as “###”, (three pound signs), while his closest aids, Pat and Annie Broeker, were referred to as “* “, (an asterisk). However, if a person (or agency) got enough of these, there would be little doubt that we were in touch with Hubbard (via ASI) and that he was telling us and each corporation what to do to make him more money.14. David Miscavige specifically ordered destruction of any documents in ASI’s posession which would implicate Hubbard as managing agent of Scientology. He stated that under his directive the LRH orders, or “advices” were being collected and transferred by truck to a Riverside County recycling plant where the documents were to be “pulped.” This method of destruction was considered to be better than shredding. I was also put in charge of purging the remainder of the LRH orders, i.e. “Advices”. This was to include “advices” that were located in Church of Scientology of California (CSC); Church of Scientology International (CSI); and RTC.
15. Several weeks after the April, 1983 meeting, I attended another meeting at the ASI offices concerning the continuing destruction of Scientology corporate documentation. In attendance at this meeting were David Miscavige,
Lyman Spurlock, Vicki Aznaran, Norman Starkey, Marty Rathbun, and Scientology attorney, Earl Cooley. At this meeting, Miscavige, for the first time, stated that Scientology had been ordered by a court to produce various documents concerning a former Scientology member, Lawrence Wollersheim, who had a lawsuit pending in Los Angeles against the Church of Scientology of California. The court had ordered Scientology to produce Wollersheim’s entire Pre-Clear file.16. A “Pre-Clear” file is one of the several files kept on members. The Pre-Clear file is the file that includes all written records of all “confessionals’ done by the member. This means that it includes not only the most self-damaging material, but it also reflects every problem the person might have had with the organization, including complaints. This Pre-Clear file grows with the person’s tenure in Scientology.
17. Mr. Wollersheim’s Pre-Clear file was several thousand pages in length and stood as high as a six-foot tall man. Initially at this meeting, it was decided that Mr. Wollersheim’s Pre-Clear file would be redacted and culled of any evidence or documentation which might assist Wollersheim in his lawsuit against CSC. There was also concern that the materials known as Clear, OT I, OT II, OT III, and NED for OT’s (NOTS) would be open to public inspection if Wollersheim’s files were produced as ordered. Scientologists are taught that a person could catch pneumonia and die if that person is prematurely exposed to these “upper level” materials without first having taken many hours of preparatory auditing.
18. Wollersheim’s Pre-Clear file was purged of any incriminating evidence against Scirentology based on a direct order from Miscavige in the presence of Scientology’s lead trial counsel, Earl Cooley of Boston, Massachusetts. Mr. Cooley thereafter represented to the court that the purged file was indeed the entire PC File of Mr. Wollersheim. Ultimately, approximately 50 pages were produced pursuant to the court order.
21. Later, I was informed that a second court order was issued to produce Wollersheim’s entire file. Faced with the prospect of having to produce the entire file, Miscavige gave orders that the entire file simply be destroyed by being pulped.
22. Pursuant to Miscavige’s orders, I ordered Rick Aznaran to take Wollersheim’s Pre-Clear files to the recycling plant in Riverside to be pulped. Several hours after I gave the order to have Wollersheim’s Pre-Clear files destroyed, Rick Aznaran returned and confirmed that the records had been pulped and even showed me a small bottle of pulped material. “Here’s what’s left,” he said.
23. Members of Scientology are induced to confess to acts that, if not outright criminal, are embarrassing or possibly destructive to the person’s job, marriage or profession. For example, shoplifting, adultery, masturbation, homosexuality, drug abuse, or any other potentially embarassing or illegal matters are recorded. Members are urged to write down these compromising facts in their own handwriting, under the guise that it is a “religious confessional” for the member’s good. The truth is that these “confessions” are kept to blackmail and extort members should they dare to speak out against Scientology. Members are also coerced to sign documents that are self-damaging in order to protect Scientology in case they dare to leave its control and speak the damaging truth. I know all this to be true, because I watched this done to others; I did it to others; and it was done to me.
24. I have personally witnessed executive decisions directed to members instructing them to “end cycle”, i.e., die. I have personally read written instructions by Ray Mithoff concerning the following individuals: a) Diane Morrison, a personal friend of mine. She had cancer. Radiation treatment is forbidden by Scientology. She was instructed by Ray Mithoff to “end cycle.” Her husband, Shawn Morrison, was ordered by Ray Mithoff to transport her off of the Scientology property at Gilman Hotsprings, California, to her mother’s house so that she would not die on Scientology property. b) Ted Cormier, a personal friend of mine. He had Parkinson’s disease. He was ordered to leave Gilman Hotsprings and go directly to Flag for NOTS 34, auditing to cure his cancer. When this failed, Ray Mithoff sent him orders in his Pre-Clear folder for him to “end cycle.” He died.
25. I have personally reviewed a video of a television interview of Roxanne Friend, a former Scientologist. She had cancer which could have been successfully treated. She was kidnapped in California and taken across
country in a motorhome to FLAG in Clearwater where she was held against her will, which prevented her from getting cancer treatment. After she escaped she gave this interview that I observed on a television talk show. She
disclosed that she was beyond treatment because of this delay and subsequently died. Based on my experience in Scientology, her statements ring true.My Experience with Isolation
26. In 1973, Hubbard announced to the Scientology world that he had solved the problem of how to handle a person in a “psychotic break”. Hubbard stated that this was a “technical breakthrough” which possibly ranks with the major discoveries of the twentieth century. He further said his discovery means the last reason to have psychiatry around is gone. He went on to say the key is what caused the person to introspect before the psychotic break. During my tenure in Scientology I have observed four instances of people having a psychotic break. In each case the person was sleep deprived; each had been told their job performance was inadequate; and each person was subjected to Scientology ethics.
27. I am familiar with the practice of “Isolation,” also known as “baby watch” as practiced by Scientology and I have participated in the “handling” of one Scientologist that was ordered to “Isolation”. No one volunteers to go into Isolation. I have seen with my own eyes how a person is driven to the point of having a “psychotic break” and the subsequent brutality of treatment the person then receives as a result of the handlers following strict Scientology methods.
28. In the four instances of Isolation I observed, the person was locked in a room with at least two other people guarding the exit door. The people that watch the person in a psychotic break are not allowed to talk to the person at all. They are only allowed to physically restrain the person. The reason there are people guarding the exit door is that the person wants to leave and attempts to leave time after time. By their own policy the person in a psychotic break is not allowed to leave until the Case Supervisor allows it. Here is a direct quote from Scientology technical “Introspection Rundown, Additional Step”: “Dear Joe. What can you guarantee me if you are let out of
Isolation?” If the persons’s reply shows continued irresponsibility toward other dynamics or fixation on one dynamic to the exclusion of others damaged, the C/S (Case Supervisor) must inform the person of his continued Isolation and why. Example: “Dear Joe. I’m sorry but no go on coming out of isolation yet…”29. In 1987, I was at a place called Happy Valley, located behind the Soboba Indian Reservation in California. Happy Valley is where the Scientology Rehabilitation Project Force, RPF, is located. It is a prison /slave labor camp for Scientologists who no longer ascribe totally to the doctrine of Scientology. I, along with six other Sea Org members, were ordered to do a “isolation watch” on another Sea Org member who was having a psychotic break. Prior to having the psychotic break the person was very normal. She had been deprived of sleep for many days due to a deadline she was ordered to meet on her job. She was sent to “Ethics” and was constantly humiliated and degraded for making errors and for falling asleep at her work station. When she was given to me to watch she was on her hands and knees and literally barking like a dog. She thought she was L. Ron Hubbard. It was at this time that I learned how forced feeding was done and the extent of restraint we all had to enforce on a young woman barely 5 feet tall. I was horrified at just how close she was to losing her life due to the “help” we were being ordered to give her. Even though she was now being allowed to sleep, she could not sleep and had been up for nearly four days. She was in a very agitated and violent state. She would scream for hours until she could scream no more. She fought to escape and mutilated herself in the process. Finally a doctor was called in and it took four people plus the doctor to hold her down to give her a shot to make her go to sleep.
30. A major part of the trauma a person experiences in Scientology’s “isolation” treatment is the person’s struggle to get away or to get out of the room they are being confined in. The young woman I had to “iso watch” had
numerous injuries as a result of her beating on the walls and the door trying to get away. She would drift in and out of her psychotic state. I was informed by the security guard watching over us all that her family was desperately trying to find her and during the times when she was “okay” I had to let her call her mother after I told her what to say. I held a separate phone while she talked to her family and when things started to get “weird” I would end the conversation. She would tell her mother that she was okay and would be home soon. During this time she became very upset with me because I made her see a doctor she did not know and who was not allowed to talk to her
while he was giving her shots. She physically attacked me on more than one occasion. This was a public relations nightmare for Scientology and this is why she was told to lie to her family about what was really going on with her. This went on for two months. After she seemed stable for a week and completed the “Introspection Rundown” she was made to sign a release form which in essence said Scientology was not responsible for what had happened to her and she was quickly sent home.31. If I had not forcibly made her drink water, I am positive that based upon my own observations she would have died.
32. The people who are selected to watch a person in a psychotic break are trained to make a person physically comply with orders and demands. Controlling a person physically is taught in Scientology in its Training Routine Courses. As an example, in what is called “Training Routine 7, High School Indoc” the Scientology student is trained to never be stopped by a Pre-Clear. No matter what the person in “Isolation” does or says, they are not allowed to leave until the C/S says they can.
My Involvement in the case of Lisa McPherson
33. I have been retained as an expert witness and trial consultant in the case of Lisa McPherson since Nov, 1998. In Dec, 1998, Scientology representative Glenn Stilo brought Lisa McPherson’s Pre Clear files to the
office of Ken Dandar by order of this court for inspection. Glenn Stilo and I knew each other when I was in Scientology. At that time, Glenn was fully aware that I was present at Mr. Dandar’s Office and that I was there inspecting Lisa McPherson’s auditing files. I have also reviewed the “caretaker logs” of Lisa McPherson at the Fort Harrison Hotel and her Ethics File.34. It is obvious from these files that Lisa McPherson complained that auditing and Scientology were not working for her in 1995 and that she wanted to leave and return to Texas. Her “stats” were down, i.e., her production and income at AMC Publishing. As a result, she was placed in Ethics at her work where the records revealed that she was constantly doing “amends” and writing “O/W’s”, overts and write-ups, which resulted in less time to obtain adequate sleep which further, in my own observations, leads to psychotic breaks. This is confirmed by L. Ron Hubbard in his own writings, “Introspection Rundown Additional Steps.”
35. FLAG at the Ft. Harrison Hotel is “the mecca of technical perfection” according to Scientology. I can attest that it is a high crime in Scientology to alter or ignore the tech. It is also a high crime to lose or omit vital information from any PC folder, including “caretaker logs.” The Lisa McPherson “caretaker logs” are missing substantial day-to-day portions, in particular, the last three and one-half days of her Isolation. This is no accident. Records of this magnitude are not lost. Based on my experience, these missing records were intentionally destroyed to conceal material matters damaging to Scientology. Hubbard explicitly writes in CS SERIES 97 and CS SERIES 98 that “omissions from folders and complete loss of folders is a very serious matter….” If proven, expulsion from Scientology is mandatory.
36. I have been asked to address the issue of whether or not Lisa McPherson would have consented to her own isolation prior to experiencing a psychotic break. Without question, no Scientologist, except a Class 4 auditor or above, would have prior knowledge of how someone would be treated who is declared to be PTS Type III: a “Potential Trouble Source” who is experiencing a psychotic break. Only those auditors would have the knowledge that “Isolation” is implemented or the details of “Isolation” for those who are PTS Type III. In reviewing the Scientology records of Lisa McPherson, she was not an auditor and would therefore never have acquired the knowledge prior to becoming PTS Type III to consent to being held against her will in isolation.
37. In Scientology technical bulletin “Search and Discovery” under the subtitle “Handling Type III”, L. Ron Hubbard wrote, “But there will always be some failures as the insane sometimes withdraw into rigid unawareness as a
final defense, sometimes can’t be kept alive and sometimes are too hectic and distraught to ever become quiet, the extremes of too quiet and never quiet have a number of psychiatric names such as “catatonia” (withdrawn totally) and “manic” (too hectic).”38. Following the dogma of L. Ron Hubbard to the letter is the highest priority for a person practicing Scientology. In a Scientology policy letter called “Keeping Scientology Working”, L. Ron Hubbard says “The proper
instruction attitude is, ‘You’re here so you’re a Scientologist. Now we are going to make you into an expert auditor no matter what happens. We’d rather have you dead than incapable.”39. In terms of the report and control of RTC, it is required by any and all Scientology organizations to report directly to RTC any extreme deviations from “standard tech”. For example, it would be considered a deviation when a
Scientology Pre-Clear, (a person that has paid for auditing services from Scientology), has left Scientology and threatens to sue. Other examples would include a Pre-Clear who is not getting the expected results or one who has had a psychotic break (PTS Type III). Once the RTC Tech Unit completed a review of a Pre-Clear folder, it would be sent back via the Office of the Senior Case Supervisor International (located in Church of Scientology International) to ensure compliance to orders and correction as deemed necessary by the RTC Tech Unit. CSI receives updated status reports and without question would have received updated status reports on the Isolation of Lisa McPherson and her deteriorating medical condition because RTC has an on site representative at FLAG. These reports would be composed and sent up line to Ray Mithoff at RTC by the Senior Case Supervisor, Alain Kartuzinski. Ray Mithoff would then take the report to RTC. The Office of Special Affairs, OSA, locally and internationally, would be informed of the Isolation as well. Marty Rathbun, Inspector General Ethics, is over all the legal affairs of every case and situation in Scientology and would also have knowledge of a PTS Type III in Isolation.40. The above reporting procedure is still practiced in the Scientology conglomerate today. For example, in the attached “D/Inspector General Office,” published by Religious Technology Center and copyrighted in 1997, it
compels reporting directly to RTC any listed situation, such as “any person who acts PTS Type III.” This is all done in order to help RTC “locate and eradicate any suppression (i.e., a threat) and thereby make sure that Scientology keeps working.” Lisa McPherson was deemed PTS Type III and therefore was such a threat.41. RTC receives all reports on situations involving Isolation for guidance from RTC to the Senior Case Supervisor, Sr. C/S. RTC then reports the matter to Sr. C/S INT, i.e., International, office for further investigation. Sr.
C/S INT then reports back to the RTC Reports Officer. Ray Mithoff is the Sr. C/S INT at CSI, the mother church. Ray Mithoff, Marty Rathbun and David Miscavige, as they have done on other occasions within my personal knowledge, meet and discuss various options available to Scientology on how to deal with a public relations flap. No one else has the authority to do so. Lisa McPherson was such a public relations flap to Scientology since she took her clothes off in public and was placed in Isolation.42. In records I have reviewed provided by FLAG in this case concerning Lisa McPherson, she had previously complained that Scientology was not working for her and her stats were down. Based upon my own experience and Scientology procedures and protocol, these three individuals would have met and discussed on several occasions what to do with Lisa since she was not improving in Isolation. It is important to know that Scientology has no prohibition on members seeking emergency medical treatment as stated in HCOB Physically ILL PCs and Pre-OTs, 12-3-69, which mandates a medical cure before auditing, where Hubbard states “if we already know he is ill we should call in the doctor.” page 328 of Volume 8 of the Technical Bulletins
43. Yet, from the available records, it is apparent to me that these three individuals: Mithoff, Rathbun, and Miscavige, had no option other than to permit her to die in Isolation rather than take her to the hospital for emergency medical treatment and risk embarrassing questions from the attending physicians, press, and authorities with likely claims of imprisonment and abuse being made by Lisa McPherson upon her recovery. This is true because in
Scientology it is never an option to be held accountable. Contrary to their own policy that “THE CORRECT ACTION ON AN INSANE PATIENT IS A FULL SEARCHING CLINICAL EXAMINATION BY A COMPETENT MEDICAL DOCTOR.” Page 327, Volume 8 of the Technical Bulletins, Scientology decided in Lisa’s case, through these three individuals acting through FLAG, not to follow this particular policy and let her die. Scientology provides an option called “end cycle” which is permitting and ordering the person to die. It is obvious to me that the decision was to permit Lisa McPherson to die rather than face an extreme public relations flap by taking her to the local emergency room in her morbid condition as described in the “caretaker logs.”44. Based on my personal experience and expertise in Scientology, I have formed the following opinion: Lisa McPherson was held against her will in Isolation and when she did not respond to Scientology technical handling, FLAG, on orders from David Miscavige, Ray Mithoff, and Marty Rathbun sat mute and watched her die after she no longer had the strength to fight for her freedom. Her death was no accident. It was the chosen option to minimize a public relations flap.
45. I declare under penalty of perjury under the laws of the State of Florida that the foregoing is true and correct.
______________________________
JESSE PRINCESWORN TO AND SUBSCRIBED before me at Tampa, Hillsborough County, Florida, this ___ day of August, 1999.
___________________________________
NOTARY PUBLIC
My commission expires:Personally Known ____
Produced ID ____
Type of ID Produced _____________________
Notes
- Document source: http://www.whyaretheydead.net/lisa_mcpherson/legal/jesse_aff_9908.html ↩
Affidavit of Michael J. Rinder (May 9, 1999)
IN THE CIRCUIT COURT FOR THE SIXTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT
IN AND FOR PINELLAS COUNTY, FLORIDA
STATE OF FLORIDA
vs.
CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY FLAG
SERVICE ORGANIZATION, INC
SPN: 01980179Case No. CRC 98-20377CFANO-S
AFFIDAVIT OF REVEREND MICHAEL J. RINDER1
Reverend Michael J. Rinder, being duly sworn, deposes and says:
1. I have personal knowledge of the facts set forth in this affidavit, and if called upon as a witness, I could and would competently testify thereto.
2. I am a director of the Church of Scientology International (“CSI”). CSI is the “mother church” of the Scientology religion. CSI provides guidance and assistance to Scientology churches around the world, and is directly concerned with their stability and vitality, their ability to continue to propagate the religion, and the spiritual well-being of the parishioners they serve.
3. In my capacity as a CSI director and in furtherance of the purposes and functions of CSI as set forth in the preceding paragraph of this Affidavit, I became concerned about the impact that the charges brought in this case would have on the Scientology religion, on Scientology churches, including defendant Church of Scientology Flag Service Organization (“FSO”), and on individual Scientologists throughout the world. I have witnessed the results of media coverage which has persistently labeled these proceedings as the prosecution of the entire religion itself, and the disturbing reactions such characterizations have engendered.
4. In charging the Church, the impact was predictable and has now been demonstrated. That impact has stigmatized all Scientology churches and all Scientologists because of the widespread perception generated that the entire Scientology religion has been charged. Literally no Scientologist anywhere in the world is free from or immune to the public impression that those who practice the Scientology religion are suspect by association.
5. The statistics vividly illustrate my point. Articles characterizing the scope of these charges and labeling the accused as “Scientology,” “Scientologists,” or the generic “Church of Scientology” have appeared in over 255 newspapers in the United States, Australia, Canada, Denmark, England, France, Germany, Japan, the Netherlands and Spain. Analysis of the international media coverage reveals that 31 percent reported that “Scientology” was charged with the crime, 66 percent reported that the generalized “Church of Scientology” was charged, and only 3 percent accurately reported that FSO was the target of the charges. To illustrate just how broadly this has been disseminated, a list of the newspapers and wire services where such articles have been published is annexed to this Affidavit as Exhibit A, and a representative sampling of such coverage is annexed as Exhibit B.
6. Together, the newspapers and magazines identified in Exhibit A to this Affidavit have circulation of more than 48,650,000. The wire services identified in Exhibit A to this Affidavit supply news coverage to well over 500,000 subscribing media outlets, and even accounting for overlapping subscribers to such wire services, their reports reach millions of additional readers around the world.
7. Similarly, radio and television broadcasts generally stigmatizing “Scientology” or the “Church of Scientology” with suggestions of culpability in Ms. McPherson ‘ s death and the resulting criminal charges have reached well over 50,000,000 viewers and listeners. A list of the radio and television stations which have broadcast such stories is annexed to this Affidavit as Exhibit C.
8. Another tangible result of the entire church being charged is anti Scientologists have used the case as a springboard for more attacks on Scientology churches and their parishioners worldwide. Anti-Scientology hate groups have organized picketing that has occurred around the world. These “protests” are not orderly demonstrations. Instead, they are raucous and provocative assemblages, marked by taunts, insults, and even threats of violence. Since few, if any, of the “protestors” are disaffected former Scientologists, there is no other purported “cause” for their rallies, apart from the case of State of Florida v. Church of Scientology. Moreover, the vast majority of such “protests” have taken place at premises other than FSO, although some of the most provocative have been in Clearwater.
9. The following is a representative example to illustrate my point. The Information in this case was filed on November 13,1998. Widespread media coverage followed. On December 4, 1998, a group of “protestors” -none of whom even lived in Clearwater- began their demonstration in Clearwater by convening a press conference which they commenced by announcing, “Welcome to occupied Clearwater.” Then, having obtained a permit from the Chief M-Police of Clearwater in an extraordinarily abbreviated application/approval process -of approximately one business day’s duration -these “protestors” occupied the entire public sidewalk in front of FSO. During the course of that “protest,” they:
- blocked the path of parishioners arriving for, and leaving after, religious services with, among other things, a coffin with “Scientology Kills” painted on it;
- shouted anti-Scientology epithets through a bullhorn, disrupting religious services inside the building;
- chased the vans which FSO was forced to provide for the safe transportation of its parishioners;
- vilified those same parishioners with personal barbs, taunted them and waved hateful, demeaning placards about their religion, with slogans such as the following:
- “Blood on $cientology Hands” with an autopsy photograph of Ms. McPherson’s hand “Scientology, The Church With A Body Count”
- “Scientology: Doctors of Death!”
- “Lisa Macpherson [sic]: Killed by her Church?”
- “Thank God L. Ron Hubbard is Dead”
- “Honk if you Hate Scientology!”
- verbally taunted Church staff with personal insults regarding such things as their mother’s supposed sexual indiscretions; and made profane threats of physical violence against ecclesiastical leaders of the religion. (A representative sampling of photographs of the Clearwater demonstrations is annexed to this Affidavit as Exhibit D.)
10. In December of 1998, anti-Scientologists purchased advertising space on Pinellas County buses which they used for anonymous signs exhorting people, “Don’t Walk, RUN !
Quit $cientology,” and “Find Out Why So Many People Oppose Dianetics & Scientology.” (Exhibit E.) The bus ads were so offensive that one of the Pinellas Suncoast Transit Authority (“PSTA “) commissioners demanded they be taken down immediately. After they were removed, the anti- Scientologists appeared at several PSTA board meetings, threatening legal action against the PSI A for refusing to carry their anti-religious message.11. During the last six weeks of 1998, following the filing of the Information in this case, nearly two dozen such “protests” took place in the United States (including Washington, D.C.; Atlanta, Georgia; Buffalo, New York; Boston, Massachusetts; Chicago, Illinois; Tustin, California; Salt Lake City, Utah; Minneapolis, Minnesota; San Francisco, California; San Jose, California; and Phoenix, Arizona) and in cities around the world (including Toronto, Canada; London, England; Copenhagen, Denmark; Stockholm, Sweden; and Brisbane, Australia). They bore signs imputing responsibility for Ms. McPherson ‘ s death to the Scientology religion such as the following:
“Scientology Indicted”
“Scientology Kills”
“Scientology killed Lisa McPherson”
“Scientology HURTS PEOPLE”
“Scientology Hurts People. Who will be next?”
“Scientology is a Scam”
“Scientology Charged [in] Lisa’s Death”
“Lisa McPherson is dead”
“Don’t forget Lisa McPherson, killed by Scientologists”
“Say No to Scientology -What on Earth do $cientologists Believe in Anyway?”Annexed to this Affidavit as Exhibit F is a representative sampling of photographs of these protests.
12. In 1999, similar anti-Scientology demonstrations targeting the religion have been staged throughout the United States (including Atlanta, Georgia; San Jose, California; Phoenix, Arizona; Los Angeles, California; Los Gatos, California; Washington, D.C.; Dallas, Texas; and Salt Lake City, Utah) and elsewhere in the world (including Amsterdam, the Netherlands; Sussex, England; and Toronto, Canada). The slogans printed on protestors’ signs in those demonstrations included:
“Scientology hurts people. Who will be next?”
“Stop hurting people”
“Scientology indicted in death of Lisa McPherson, December 5, 1995”
“Scientology is a Scam”
“Scientology is a cult”
“Scientology didn’t believe in God”
“Scientology. Criminal cult of Greed, Fraud, Hate and Abuse”
“Scientology proud to be evil”
“L. Ron Hubbard is dead but his fraud continues!”
“Scientology, threat to democracy!”
“Scientology should not be tax exempt”
“Lisa McPherson killed by her Church”
“Is Scientology practicing medicine without a license?”
“Scientology, Cult of Greed & Power”
“Scientology boasts of brainwashing”13. The widespread, international demonstrations described above, which exploit allegations relating to Ms. McPherson’ s death to stigmatize an international religion and its adherents, establish that the charges in this case are being interpreted as directed against the entire Scientology religion rather than against the defendant. It is highly improbable there is a single Scientologist across the globe who has not been confronted with the allegation his or her religion killed one of its own members. Indeed, the false attributions of responsibility to the religion itself have become so widely publicized that even foreign governments have raised inquiries. In December of 1998, a member of the Danish parliament asked for an investigation into allegations regarding the Church’ s treatment of Ms. McPherson. The questions raised by the Danish parliamentarian were directed toward the beliefs and practices of the Scientology religion, and not the conduct of any corporation or individuals.
14. So pervasive is the perception that the religion or the entire “Church of Scientology” has been charged in connection with Ms. McPherson’ s death, that it even appears to have reached into the courthouse. Exhibit G to this Affidavit is a true and correct copy of a notice served upon defendant FSO by the Court in which the caption identifies the defendant as “Church of Scientology” without reference to “Flag Service Organization” or “FSO.”
15. Although I recognize that the State neither writes the stories nor the headlines, the fact of charging FSO has been interpreted publicly as a sound denunciation of the Scientology religion and all its parishioners as criminally complicit. A March 28, 1999 article in the St. Petersburg Times encapsulates the essence of this perception. At the conclusion of a two-and- one-half page front-page article, the Times reporter wrote: “Cranes over downtown Clearwater stand in testament to the church’ s continued growth as the church and its members change the face of that city. But standing in the way is Pinellas-Pasco State Attorney Bernie McCabe, the prosecutor and a fresh charge that strikes at the heart of Scientology’s claim that it helps its adherents.” (Emphasis added.)
FURTHER AFFIANT SAYETH NAUGHT.
[signed]
Reverend Michael J. RinderSTATE OF FLORIDA
County of PinellasThe foregoing instrument was acknowledged before me this 9th day of May, 1999, by Reverend Michael J. Rinder, who is personally known to me and who did take an oath.
[signed]
ASHER SAMUEL GHIORA
MY COMMISSION. CC69144S
EXPIRES October 26.2001
Notes
Jesse Prince: David Miscavige’s Rise to Corruption (or: Ding Dong the King is Dead)–Reformatted (September 5, 1998)
Title: David Miscavige’s Rise to Corruption (or: Ding Dong the King is Dead)–Reformatted1
Author: jesse.prince@gte.net (Jesse Prince)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 23:15:50 GMTThe following is an account of my opinion based on eye witness events and secret
meetings I either witnessed or actively participated in while I was in the inner
sanctum of the cult known as “The Church of Scientology.” I write this in an
effort to provide an insight into the truth of the actual motives and agenda of
Scientology, which is no religion at all.On Thursday, August 20, 1998, I attended a hearing at 8:30 a.m. in U.S. District
Court in Denver, Colorado. I had been in deposition all day the day before.
Scientology was deposing me, supposedly concerning the declaration I had filed
in the FACTNet case, but in fact I had been asked very few questions that
related in any way to the FACTNet copyright case. Most of the deposition had
concerned my personal history, much of which had been culled from my pc folders.
It was obvious to me that they were using the deposition to gather intelligence
information about me, which they would then use to discredit me. But I remained
courteous and answered all of their questions as well as I could. I have nothing
to hide. I am not ashamed of anything I”ve done in my life.The issues before the magistrate were twofold. One was a letter which Lawrence
Wollersheim”s attorney Dan Leipold had sent to Scientology attorney Samuel
Rosen, in which Dan promised to turn the entire transcript of my deposition over
to Ken Dandar, the attorney for Lisa McPherson”s estate, if Rosen dared to bring
up any information from my confidential pc folders. The other issue was the
length of time Scientology would be allowed to keep me in deposition. Dan and my
attorney Ford Greene wanted to limit the amount of time they could keep me;
Scientology wanted unlimited access to me.So I am sitting in the courtroom next to my friend Stacy Young, who is there as
a director of FACTNet. Suddenly I hear Samuel Rosen say: “Your honor, the
witness they are bringing into this case, Jesse Prince, was second in command of
the Church of Scientology. He signed a confidential non-discolosure agreement
not to divulge any information he obtained as a result of his being second in
command of Scientology.”Rosen continued to do his best to persuade the magistrate not to allow Dan to
send the deposition transcript to the McPherson case (the outcome was that the
magistrate told Dan not to send the transcripts without getting his OK first,
and, by the way, we convinced the magistrate not to allow them to depose me past
noon of the following day).But I sat there stunned that I had just heard Scientology admit, on the record,
that I was second in command of Scientology. For me, that was the high point of
the entire deposition experience.Now let”s go back in time to an afternoon in the late summer of 1984. I am
sitting in one of many legal/litigation meetings at Author Services, Inc., or
ASI. I am in RTC, a nonprofit religious corporation which ostensibly has
absolutely nothing to do wth ASI, a for-profit corporation. But David Miscavige
finds it convenient at the moment to be the Chairman of the Board of ASI, and,
since David Miscavige runs Scientology (no matter where he places himself
corporately), he can order all of us to meet wherever and whenever he wants us
to.The subject of this particular meeting concerns the LRH probate case in
Riverside, California, and, as always, more corporate “sort-out.” Lawyers have
advised that there is still too much evidence to prove that LRH is incompetent
to manage his own affairs. This is crucial, since the case has been brought by
LRH”s son Nibbs, who has claimed that LRH is incompetent to manage his own
affairs and that his estate is being stolen by the Church of Scientology under
David Miscavige”s leadership. Nibbs is hoping to take over LRH”s assets if he
can prove that LRH is incompetent. So this is a very serious threat.LRH has repeatedly said he wants different lawyers to represent him, and that he
wants different legal advice on how to win this case against Nibbs. But DM has
decided that the lawyers LRH already has (and who were chosen, of course, by DM)
are the best possible legal counsel. LRH specifically doesn”t like the fact that
these attorneys are advising him to back away from managing Scientology”s
affairs. Part of the reason for this is that DM feels (and has told the
attorneys) that LRH is losing his grip on reality.In truth, DM was not the only one who knew that LRH was an old man past his
prime, with no real “new ideas” or “brilliant revelations” for quite some time.
All he could do was say the same thing, over and over: “There are more BTs! Many
more than people realize!” Hubbard really was a bit senile at the end there –
his brain pretty well fried by a wide range of drugs which he used for his
“research” — and this scared the hell out of his top messengers and others near
him.For many years, LRH’s top aide, Pat Broeker, and his wife, Annie Broeker, looked
after the daily care of LRH. Pat was the financial conduit between LRH and the
vast reserves of liquid cash mounting in the multiple corporations of
Scientology which LRH always had at his disposal. David Miscavige would be
called by Pat to bring hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars in cash in
briefcases to cover “basic expenses” for LRH and his small crew of four staff.
Often the prearranged meeting place was near Las Vegas. On many of these
occasions, Pat and Dave would go to a casino and gamble away thousands of
dollars of LRH’s money, just hanging out having a good time together.But as LRH felt his grasp on the Scientology empire weakening, he became
extremely suspicious of Dave and ordered me to give him a security check to see
if Dave was trying to prevent LRH from having his way with the church as he was
used to having. Basically, LRH was upset that he could not simply romp from one
fake corporation to another, wreaking havoc in his wake, as he had always done.
And he was being advised by attorneys whom Dave had hired that in order to
protect his money, he should disappear for a while. All of these circumstances
added up for LRH, and he was not at all sure he could trust DM. He was afraid DM
was trying to take over. Sure, he had practically raised Dave from a pup, but
still, who could be trusted in this business?So I was ordered to sec check DM to determine his real motives for passing along
legal advice that he back off from his own church. When I walked into Dave”s
office he was crying like a child who had taken a crap in his pants and now
stank to high heaven. Dave swore up and down to me that he was only following
LRH”s own orders to get an “All Clear” — meaning to get LRH dismissed from all
the outstanding litigation — so that LRH could travel freely again, without
fear of subpoenas or worse.LRH had been in hiding, not only from the public but also from 95 percent of all
his staff, for the last fifteen to twenty years anyway. Dave was extremely
indignant at being asked such incriminating questions, but because of the
questions I was asking him, he was fairly certain that LRH would soon assign him
to the RPF (the Rehabilitation Project Force, Scientology”s political prison).In the security check Dave made sure he told me about the trips to the casinoes,
the heavy drinking and the women he and Pat had enjoyed together. Dave freely
confessed his sins and Pat Broeker”s sins as well. He said if he was going to go
down, he was going to make sure Pat Broeker went down as well. He was very
critical of Pat, saying he had a long history of alcohol abuse and recklessly
spending LRH’s money. Of course, the person who received the report of Dave”s
sec check was Pat Broeker. So it didn”t surprise me a bit when Dave and Pat
suddenly became best buddies again. I seriously doubt that anything but reports
full of glowing praise for Dave ever went to LRH. In retrospect I realize both
Pat Broeker and David Miscavige had an interest in keeping the status quo with
LRH, since both of them had dreams of one day being the new dictator of
Scientology once the current Ding Dong king was dead.LRH went on spending his millions freely on property and “research” (all this
really meant was that he was buying more and more drugs for himself) and buying
exotic animals like buffalo, llamas, swans and peacocks at the ranch at
Creston.LRH seemed resigned to follow the legal advice of Dave”s lawyers and stayed away
from Scientology. However, he made it known that he was still very salty about
the whole deal and refused to make contact as he had done in the past.About a year and a half later he became very ill.
I will continue this story very soon. It is not my intention to post a book on
this newsgroup all at one time. However, I will say this: What I am relating to
you here will never cost you a dime. It will always be free on the internet. I
am not a writer, nor am I trying to be. (And here is a good place to say thanks
to Stacy for being my editor — she”s making sure my posts to you are readable!)
If I could have anything I wanted in return for exposing the true nature of the
inner workings of Scientology, I would ask its current members and staff to run
away as fast as possible to recover their lives. That”s all I want.Part of the agreement we all made when we became cult slaves was to turn our
backs on our friends and family, so I know that many people literally have no
place to go if they leave Scientology, particularly the Sea Org. But there are
people working to resolve this problem. This will change soon.Respectfully Submitted,
Jesse Prince
Notes
- Document source: http://www.lermanet.com/jesseprince.htm ↩